Role of Standards in SCUBA Diver Training

[MXGratefulDiver]

So your saying that the instructor should recognize the standards and not only meet all the training agencies standards, but exceed them.

I agree, but this seems to be a different approach that you took on the other thread about a non-certified diver giving an in-water session to his 11 year-old son?

"Might it be that this father knows his child better than we do? Well enough, perhaps, to have decided that he could handle the responsibility of using scuba equipment in a pool ... under the supervision of a parent who, in all likelihood, knows more about scuba diving than a significant percentage of diving instructors out there today?"

Am I misunderstanding something here?

Yes ... you are. You're misunderstanding the intent of the thread.

You're also making assumptions based on information that was not posted.

But why don't we discuss the other thread in the other thread?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Interceptor121]

DCBC I see you are a NAUI course director. So is it true that as NAUI instructor I can invent an exercise because he thinks is relevant to diving in quarries for example and then if the student fails I can withold certification? That is staggering but maybe true?

 

[Kingpatzer]

. . . some soul searching in why all the agencies think differently than you.

Walmart beats out the corner boutique every time, but very rarely is it because of superior quality.

"Good enough" beats exceptional in the marketplace, but that doesn't make it better, or even the best return on one's investment.

Agency instructors exist to make money for agencies. They serve their students as an ancillary by-product of their main business purpose.

 

[DCBC]

If an agency allows instructor to create new skills and measure those to achieve certification then I would say that those are guidelines not standards...

I refer to the minimum standards, as set-out by the Certification Agency. Although the minimums vary between organizations, I believe that an Instructor would be hard pressed to withhold a certification if the minimums standards were met.

 

[DCBC]

Walmart beats out the corner boutique every time, but very rarely is it because of superior quality.

"Good enough" beats exceptional in the marketplace, but that doesn't make it better, or even the best return on one's investment.

Agency instructors exist to make money for agencies. They serve their students as an ancillary by-product of their main business purpose.

All too often I'm afraid, this appears to be the case. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I refer to the minimum standards, as set-out by the Certification Agency. Although the minimums vary between organizations, I believe that an Instructor would be hard pressed to withhold a certification if the minimums standards were met.

If the customer was aware of the minimum standards, it would be a losing civil suit should one arise. Agencies are by and large very insistent that the minimums be respect as being all that really needs to be done. Which is why that is all that is usually done.

From what I've seen, the agencies put more effort towards making instructors teach down to the minimums than to ensure that the minimums are reached at all.

 

[DCBC]

Yes ... you are. You're misunderstanding the intent of the thread. You're also making assumptions based on information that was not posted.

But why don't we discuss the other thread in the other thread?

I'm simply commenting on your posts as they are appropriate to this discussion. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth and only want to understand your position. Perhaps you can clarify.

Someone pointed out that the intent of the other thread was not to discuss minimum training agency standards and in reflection I would agree. As far standards are concerned, what they mean and how they should (or should not) be interpreted, I thought it was more appropriate to start a new thread on this topic.

 

[Interceptor121]

Going back to the original question
Standards define the minimum level of quality that need to be achieved for a diver to be certified and ensure that comparable level of certification of different agencies have an almost common meaning
This means I can accept a NAUI, PADI open water diver as well as a BSAC diver and I have some minimum expectations

If the instructor wants to exceed the standards, he can deliver added value to the classes but still obeying to those minimum requirements and ensuring that people that do pass those minimum requirements are still certified

I know some people on this post may disagree but here we are talking about some commonalities
Besides I have had customers of at least 5-6 different training organisation and in no occurence I could tell, wow I really see the difference that agency X brings in to be honest with you
I just saw people that had many dives in different environments being generally better than those that always dive in the same spot for thousand of times

 

[DCBC]

If the customer was aware of the minimum standards, it would be a losing civil suit should one arise. Agencies are by and large very insistent that the minimums be respect as being all that really needs to be done. Which is why that is all that is usually done.

From what I've seen, the agencies put more effort towards making instructors teach down to the minimums than to ensure that the minimums are reached at all.

I would again agree, but would modify your statement to read "some agencies." From my personal experience, only PADI has taken this attitude. CMAS, NAUI, ACUC, IDEA have been more concerned that the minimum standards are met. There's a reason why PADI has become more "financially" successful than all other agencies. I fear that this has contributed little to diver safety, but that's only my opinion.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

DCBC I see you are a NAUI course director. So is it true that as NAUI instructor I can invent an exercise because he thinks is relevant to diving in quarries for example and then if the student fails I can withold certification? That is staggering but maybe true?

I am not the person you asked, but as a NAUI instructor my answer is "it depends".

You cannot violate basic safety rules ... for example, I could not decide to take my students beyond recreational depths, or exceed no-decompression limits. I must uphold not only the requirements but also the limitations specified in the standards.

However, I can create exercises that I believe improve the safety and skills of my students in local conditions ... and make them mandatory for passing the course. And indeed I do.

We dive in what amounts to a fjord ... deep, cold, murky and current-swept. I require my AOW students to learn how to deploy a DSMB, because it's a skill that may someday prevent them from getting lost off a dive site. They must pass that skill in order to pass my AOW class. I require my students to practice air-sharing drills, and to demonstrate an air-share while holding their buoyancy ... and at a depth where narcosis may be a factor (70 to 100 fsw) ... because that's where the majority of OOA and LOA issues occur in Puget Sound. I require my students to practice navigation skills mid-water ... where there are no visible landmarks ... because low visibility is a common occurrance here and good navigation skills are necessary for a lot of the dives AOW-certified divers will want to do here ... besides, it's great buoyancy control practice. There are other skills I add to that class that are not mandated by standards ... gas management, for example. But they are targeted toward the reality of diving in Puget Sound. I make my students aware, up-front, that this is not your usual AOW class, and that there will be skills taught in this class that they won't have to deal with in someone else's AOW class.

And the fact of the matter is the class was so sought-after that I almost burned out teaching it. People don't view these exercises as onerous ... they WANT to learn them.

But I also rarely fail a student ... and only ever because they give up trying. Otherwise we just keep working at it until they meet the objectives of the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)