Rolling Eyes at LDS

[MXGratefulDiver]

I roll my eyes at our one shop's adamant insistence that my "tech s*&%" (DIR setup) is inappropriate for local recreational diving. They don't quite come out and say that I am going to die, but they're thinking it . . .

That's the same shop who's owner once told me it's a federal law that you MUST hve a Nitrox banner wrapped around your tank before they are allowed to put nitrox in it ...

Is it by any chance a large regional chain?

Nope ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

For the poster who had eyes rolled at him because they wanted to buy a bp/wing - I'd ask the same question - why so you want this? Is it cos a guy on the internet said it was the way to go or do you really undertand the pros and cons of owning that equipment. It's not difficult to establish the reasoning behind a customer's request and I see it as our responsibility to ensure the customer is getting what is right for them.

Be glad you don't own a grocery store ... "Excuse me madam, but why do you want these items. You're already overweight, and these will only make you fatter. I suggest more vegetables."

While I can appreciate your intent, with all due respect it's not your place to tell me what I need ... it's your place to sell me what I want. If you can't treat me like an adult, I'm dealing with the wrong merchant.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[*dave*]

Students are more likely to buy what the instructor is using. If you care to maintain a good relationship with this particular shop (I have no idea if you do), it would be in your best interest to teach using stuff they sell.

If you don't care, then it doesn't matter. In either case, no "eye rolling" is necessary.

Terry

I suppose if the students have no other information, other than their own observations on what gear they should be diving, that would be true. If they receive adequate instruction on choosing gear that meets their needs, they can make an informed decision on choosing the gear that matches their needs and style.

"I bought cuz my instructor wears it" is a sure sign they don't have much of a clue about gear.

BTW, most of the gear (regs, bp/w, drysuits, mask, fins, gauges.....) I dive was purchased from the LDS I instruct for. I have yet to hear of a student ordering a BP/W, Jets or a LH kit. I understand your statement, but it doesn't hold water in my experience.

Really? So getting to know people on the board, seeing dive histories and experiences, and getting consensus on what works based on those experiences....none of that is supposed to matter on the board?

Why have the board then if no one takes other peoples advice/opinion?

If I don't understand the reason behind the decision, I wouldn't be convinced if 95% of SB members endorsed something, but that's just me. If I'm correct about something, it's not because X number of people agree with me, it's because I'm correct. I couldn't find the poll OTW cited, either. But, if 70%-80% of SBers think back mounting a pony is a good idea for them, I'm not going to call that good enough and start back mounting a pony.

While I consider SB a great resource for getting a lot of different opinions, I do my own thinking. OTW's statement that he is right because of a poll on SB is an empty statement, imo. I had a DC a short time ago I'd never used before. He had is secondary routed over the left shoulder and I asked him about it. He'd been diving quite a while, but his response was "That's how the shop where I came from did it.". He had no idea why, but 100% of the folks from his home shop did it that way, so it must be right?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As a store owner, I totally disagree. I do not require my Instructors to teach in (wear) what my store sells. That is ludicris. I came up as an Instructor in stores that made me buy and wear inferior gear because it was what they sold... all the while the store owners snuck out the back door wearing the good stuff.

When I opened my doors one of the things I wanted to dispel was the myth that students wanted what the Instructors wore. Given that my sales are growing faster than any of the stores in my area with that requirement, I'd say intellectual consumers are figuring it out.

If you walk into a store that only sells Scubapro or only sells Apeks/Aqualung... you know you're being coerced into buying the one and only thing the store sells. You're further confounded when you see every "follower" in the store looking like poster children for that particular brand. Todays consumers are smarter.

We sell 8 different brands of gear... and still I don't require my Instructors to wear anything we sell. Why? Because we teach and believe in diving what you find most comfortable... what has the bells and whistles you want etc... We encourage customers who ask about brands we don't sell to go and check out other brands and even tell them which stores in our area sell it.

Amazingly... most of them come back and buy from us. Nevemind that we have the best pricing... they know they weren't bamboozled into buying from us. They weren't given a dog and pony show by our Instructors... and they were given all the information they could have ever wanted to make an informed decision.

There are still those who think as you do... but they are dinosaurs in a changing industry...

Good for you.

Businesses grow because a trust relationship develops between the business and its clients. Once that happens, the client is motivated to FIND reasons to purchase products from the shop.

In the scuba world, that occurs when clients feel they are being given an opportunity to make informed choices.

It's a pity more dive shop owners don't understand this simple concept.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nemrod]

I am visiting from out of town. I stop in to a retail dive equipment store to fill my tanks and they say, "uh, we have to look at those" and "uh, we cannot fill those" never minding they have a hydro and they tell you further, "nobody will fill those tanks." This usually happens in Flariduh. So I get back in the Jeep and ride across the street where they not only fill them but overfill them by 50%. So, then I get back in the Jeep and go back across the street and tell the guy that the tanks he would not fill were filled across the street and he says "well, they are idiots" and I say, "that is what they said about you, that you were an idiot" and so he rolled his eyes, I went diving.

N

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Really? So getting to know people on the board, seeing dive histories and experiences, and getting consensus on what works based on those experiences....none of that is supposed to matter on the board?

Why have the board then if no one takes other peoples advice/opinion?

Just because everyone is entitled to an opinion doesn't make them all valid opinions.

ScubaBoard today is dominated by people with far more opinions than experience. Some of the things I read here just make me shudder, thinking that someone out there will actually take it seriously.

Sure, there's plenty of good, valid advice given out daily. But one needs to be careful to not take everything that's posted here at face value.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hoomi]

Ebay is basically a world-wide swap-meet. As such, you can find some great bargains there, or you can find unscrupulous sellers trying to foist garbage on unsuspecting buyers. Since it's an auction, people tend to get caught up as well in the "gotta win" mentality, and quite often end up paying more for something than it's really worth.

There are things to look for which can help assure you're getting a good deal on Ebay. One is to watch out for auctions where the seller obviously has no clue what they're talking about. If you're looking at a BC and the seller doesn't describe it in the kind of detail that says they know what a BC is, you're probably looking at someone who just picked up a whole lot of junk at an estate sale or storage auction. On the other hand, if the auction gives informative details, such as weight integration, lift, when bought, when last used, etc. and the seller is able to intelligently answer questions, you're more likely to get something worth having.

Even then, it pays to do some research and find out what comparable items sell for, both on Ebay and elsewhere. Decide what the item is worth, and estimate what it might cost to refurbish it to decent condition, and set your bid accordingly. If you think an item is worth $100, and you figure it will cost $25 in maintenance once you have it, set your maximum bid for $75 and then DON'T watch the auction.

Lastly, do NOT - EVER - bid on anything without first getting the shipping costs from the seller. There are way too many sellers on Ebay that pad their shipping excessively to make up for a low selling price. It doesn't make sense to think you're getting a great deal on a Seacure mouthpiece for $10 less than the LDS sells it, only to find out the seller wants $15 shipping and handling.

Personally, unless it's something difficult to find, such as the discontinued Ikelite case for a camera or other such stuff, I tend to avoid Ebay anymore. For new items, I prefer to keep my business with my LDS (even if I can buy it cheaper from an online shop), and support them so they have a better chance of staying in business. For used items, I've bought from the classifieds here on Scubaboard, and picked up a few items through local sellers on Craigslist (recently got 25 lbs. of hard weights, a dive flag with buoy, and dive reel for $21 total from a local diver selling off some stuff through Craigslist).

 

[redacted]

Be glad you don't own a grocery store ... "Excuse me madam, but why do you want these items. You're already overweight, and these will only make you fatter. I suggest more vegetables."

While I can appreciate your intent, with all due respect it's not your place to tell me what I need ... it's your place to sell me what I want. If you can't treat me like an adult, I'm dealing with the wrong merchant.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

But, should the customer ask for help, grocery store or LDS, it is nice to have someone with enough knowledge to provide that help. That can often be a problem in smaller LDSs. Some are just more focused on selling high margin goods than satisfying customers.

 

[Web Monkey]

As a store owner, I totally disagree. I do not require my Instructors to teach in (wear) what my store sells. That is ludicris. I came up as an Instructor in stores that made me buy and wear inferior gear because it was what they sold... all the while the store owners snuck out the back door wearing the good stuff.

What the staff wants to use should be the driving force behind what the shop sells.

Why would you sell stuff your staff doesn't want to use?

Terry

 

[Nemrod]

Ebay is basically a world-wide swap-meet. ----

Even then, it pays to do some research and find out what comparable items sell for, both on Ebay and elsewhere. Decide what the item is worth, and estimate what it might cost to refurbish it to decent condition, and set your bid accordingly. If you think an item is worth $100, and you figure it will cost $25 in maintenance once you have it, set your maximum bid for $75 and then DON'T watch the auction.

Lastly, do NOT - EVER - bid on anything without first getting the shipping costs from the seller. There are way too many sellers on Ebay that pad their shipping excessively to make up for a low selling price. It doesn't make sense to think you're getting a great deal on a Seacure mouthpiece for $10 less than the LDS sells it, only to find out the seller wants $15 shipping and handling.

---l for $21 total from a local diver selling off some stuff through Craigslist).

I usually don't bid until the last second. That way I bid 75.99 dollars for the item you set at 75.00 and snipe you out of it.

The best items I have gotten on eBay, several were from people who got the item from an estate or whatever. One such item was described as a valve. No picture. I asked what sort of valve and the picture he sent me was of a mint Royal Aqua Master. I got that really cheap but then I got taken for 350 dollars on a wetsuit from a con artist so in the end, Karma, it all balances out. eBay is what it is.

N