Running with Scissors

[Cave Bum]

How can you teach " more self-reliance' in 3 or 4 days, isn't there enuff to cover already in a very short period of time???..Isn't that the length of some courses these days???.......

I'd more then agree there isn't a lot of time, but I'd be glad to throw out all of that self serving PADI promotional, patting itself on the back, stuff in section five to make room for this!

 

[D_B]

Ok, but I remember stressing over the stuff I needed to learn cause it all was so important .. and that was in a two nights a week, 3 week course, not counting the open water dives
... depending on how far you take it, where are you going to find more time to teach what is part of the Rescue Course

 

[DaleC]

I see solo diving as a sub specialty like cave diving, wreck penetration or deep diving (more than 130ft). Each of these have their own prerequisite training, equipment and mental/physical aptitudes. They also have an risk factor beyond basic recreational buddy diving. If solo diving is criticized then so should those other specialties as there is no (non commercial) reason for divers to deviate from the safe standards taught in the PADI open water course (no penetrations or overheads, recreational depths with no deco).
Why does PADI fixate on soloing while allowing those other violations of their "safety net" to slide by without comment?

 

[Kingpatzer]

It's stressed because no one with any sense would suggest a newly certified OW student -- FROM ANY PROGRAM -- should be out solo diving. OW is OW, it is not an advanced course and doesn't cover things like pony bottles.

If someone is not going to be without a buddy, they'll have, well, a buddy. It's sort of the way that works.

Now, we can certainly get into a discussion of how PADI, or NAUI, or any other agency, could extend their OW courses to provide for a more complete graduate. We could get into a discussion about whcih agency is better. In other words, we can have another one of the most common threads on this whole board -- but at the end of the day, the reason PADI teaches the buddy system is because it would be stupid not to.

 

[DaleC]

It's stressed because no one with any sense would suggest a newly certified OW student -- FROM ANY PROGRAM -- should be out solo diving. OW is OW, it is not an advanced course and doesn't cover things like pony bottles.

and no one would suggest those same students cave dive or do wreck penetrations either... so what's your point again?

-- but at the end of the day, the reason PADI teaches the buddy system is because it would be stupid not to.

So the other agencies that have matured enough to teach courses aimed at both the buddy and solo systems are stupid?

Sticking ones head in the sand and pretending solo diving doesn't occur or have a place in diving (like cave, tech, deep, ice etc...) is what is really stupid IMO and not acknowledging solo diving or providing proper education is what makes it so dangerous. One day soloing will be recognised as a distinct specialty (it already is making large inroads) and gain popular acceptance and then, you can bet, PADI will be right there offering their course so they can make a profit from it.

 

[Thalassamania]

and no one would suggest those same students cave dive or do wreck penetrations either... so what's your point again?

So the other agencies that have matured enough to teach courses aimed at both the buddy and solo systems are stupid?

Sticking ones head in the sand and pretending solo diving doesn't occur or have a place in diving (like cave, tech, deep, ice etc...) is what is really stupid IMO and not acknowledging solo diving or providing proper education is what makes it so dangerous. One day soloing will be recognised as a distinct specialty (it already is making large inroads) and gain popular acceptance and then, you can bet, PADI will be right there offering their course so they can make a profit from it.

PADI will indeed, many of us can remember when PADI was editorializing against NITROX - The Devil Gas! But seriously, there is at least one thing that a pair of divers can do that a solo diver can't: Buddy Brain! That can be the difference between life and death.

 

[Kingpatzer]

So the other agencies that have matured enough to teach courses aimed at both the buddy and solo systems are stupid?

Name me an agency that teaches their entry level course to include solo diving. I'm not aware of any.

Sticking ones head in the sand and pretending solo diving doesn't occur or have a place in diving (like cave, tech, deep, ice etc...) is what is really stupid IMO and not acknowledging solo diving or providing proper education is what makes it so dangerous. One day soloing will be recognised as a distinct specialty (it already is making large inroads) and gain popular acceptance and then, you can bet, PADI will be right there offering their course so they can make a profit from it.

I took the SDI solo course, from a PADI CD (who also happens to teach SDI stuff as well). I'm not saying solo diving is stupid. I'm saying an OW student being told they're ok to solo dive is stupid.

 

[DaleC]

No one is saying new divers should be taught to solo. I don't think we disagree on that point. My contention was that PADI continues to reject the notion of soloing throughout its curiculum, even though it goes on to reverse it's position on many other initial "don'ts" like penetration, incurring deco etc...
BTW I'm pretty sure you took the solo course from an SDI instructor who also taught PADI stuff as well.

 

[Cave Bum]

It's stressed because no one with any sense would suggest a newly certified OW student -- FROM ANY PROGRAM -- should be out solo diving. OW is OW, it is not an advanced course and doesn't cover things like pony bottles.

If someone is not going to be without a buddy, they'll have, well, a buddy. It's sort of the way that works.

This thread isn't about teaching solo diving to new divers. It's about PADI's using it’s position on SOLO diving to say that a buddy is a be-all and end-all solution to any diving problem.

It’s not!

We should be teaching self-reliance and situational awareness as the prime safety procedure. We should be emphasizing that the diver should be analyzing and fixing underwater problems underwater themselves not running to a buddy or popping to the surface.

Running away is not problem solving!

The answer to an emergency isn’t:

When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

 

[Wayfarer2]

I think one of the things you would need to stress would be independent thinking. All too often I see inexperienced or less capable divers follow a group or buddy in to situations they are not ready for. The most common one being a narrow swim thru that is too long, the first diver behind the guide usually silts it out completely. I have seen divers freak in that situation and I no longer follow a group in to one, now I come over the top of the group and follow their bubbles. The second is wreck penetration. I have made a lot of dives on the Oriskany and most days you will people inside banging tank valves on the doorways and see silt coming out the openings. Many divers are very passionate about the sport and they want to dive at every opportunity, I understand that very well but you have to be realistic and not jump in to situations beyond your skill level, baby steps are required.