scooter recommendation please

[Jon Nellis]

Not sure how it correlates with the 3hr runtime Jon cites, but TBM 2011's tech (drysuit, BP&W, OC doubles, AL80 slung stage filled with 3000psi EAN50) test results were 5.7 miles at 150'/minute and 2.1 miles at max speed of 243'/min for the 1200. A 600 wasn't tested due to time constraints, but should be about half those figures.

The TBM tech data for the 1200 was done right after someone borrowed it for a test dive and it had a bunch of rocks sucked trough it that beat up the leading edge of the blades. I didn't notice it until after the test. The tech data was not averaged across three divers like the single tank data, so those numbers don't carry much weight in my opinion.

200 Watts of power in a single tank configuration results in about 175FPM and in tech gear it slows down to around 150FPM which correlated with...

http://www.tahoebenchmark.com/pdfs/2009/TechSpeedConversion.pdf


600Wh / 200W = 3 hrs

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hands down the Apollo AV2 with the Lith battery. hands free very little maintenance with long distance and dependability

Plus having a saddle for it so you can fly along like Superman, having your hands free is great!

 

[Dr. Lecter]

The TBM tech data for the 1200 was done right after someone borrowed it for a test dive and it had a bunch of rocks sucked trough it that beat up the leading edge of the blades. I didn't notice it until after the test.

So what you're telling me is that I should stop letting the bolt snap on the end of my backup light get sucked into the prop?

 

[Jon Nellis]

So what you're telling me is that I should stop letting the bolt snap on the end of my backup light get sucked into the prop?

That's not a great thing to do, but sucking 5lbs of river rock through it at full speed really beats up the blades pretty good.

 

[gitterdun]

Suex does make decent things, but they're very old school tech.

Please explain.

I have a few of them, and am just curious.

 

[Hickdive]

Please explain.

I have a few of them, and am just curious.

I suspect it may be a reference to the lead acid battery used on the entry-level Suex. However, that is used deliberately as they envision that one being used in rentals. As the battery compartment is separate from the sealed motor and electronics then a flood would only wreck the battery and, being lead-acid that is "relatively" cheap to replace as opposed to Nimh or Li-on batteries.

Further up the model range uses more exotic battery systems.

 

[gitterdun]

I suspect it may be a reference to the lead acid battery used on the entry-level Suex. However, that is used deliberately as they envision that one being used in rentals. As the battery compartment is separate from the sealed motor and electronics then a flood would only wreck the battery and, being lead-acid that is "relatively" cheap to replace as opposed to Nimh or Li-on batteries.

Further up the model range uses more exotic battery systems.

Yeah, I wondered if the SLA ones were the ones that were being referred to. We still have a couple of Gavins kicking around, so didn't want to go with the Zuexos. I am seriously in love with the Li-Ions, that we have (2 XK1s and an X-Joy37). The insides of them are definitely not primitive.

 

[KaizerWilhelm]

Please explain.

I have a few of them, and am just curious.

The reason why the motor compartment is "sealed" is because the motors are brushed motors. Even in the fancy pants XK1, it's a brushed motor. If you look the efficiency from brushed to brushless motors you will see a significant drop in power output, and a significant increase in heat output. Also look at the "bypass" feature of the Suex scooters. Direct power to motor without a power regulator, ie electronics, is not needed in a brushed motor. While that is nice, if the motor compartment floods, you're kinda screwed. A brushless motor compartment can flood, but the motor keeps going.

Another example is the Watt hour rating of the XK1 and it's relative burn time compared to a Cuda Fury and Genesis 1200 watt hour rating and it's burn time. An XK1 has a watt hour rating of 1340Wh and burns for a quoted 300min. The Cuda Fury has a watt hour rating of 1150Wh and burns for a quoted 315min, Genesis 1200 has 1184Wh and burns for a quoted 384min. Sure it's not much time wise, but look at the Wh differences compared to time... The inefficient brushed motors in the Suex scooters require 16% more power to run for a shorter time compared to a Fury and 13% for a Genesis.

 

[Jon Nellis]

Another example is the Watt hour rating of the XK1 and it's relative burn time compared to a Cuda Fury and Genesis 1200 watt hour rating and it's burn time. An XK1 has a watt hour rating of 1340Wh and burns for a quoted 300min. The Cuda Fury has a watt hour rating of 1150Wh and burns for a quoted 315min, Genesis 1200 has 1184Wh and burns for a quoted 384min. Sure it's not much time wise, but look at the Wh differences compared to time... The inefficient brushed motors in the Suex scooters require 16% more power to run for a shorter time compared to a Fury and 13% for a Genesis.

Runtime is a rather vague comparison, since it doesn't define any power performance metric. A better comparison of brushed vs brushless motors power requirements is the Tahoe benchmark 150fpm cruise power data. The brush motor scooters required approximately 250 to 350 Watts to tow a diver at 150fpm, while the brushless scooters required between 165 and 250 Watts to do the same thing. Comparing the Genesis, at 165W, to the Halcyon T16 (a.k.a. Suex XJoy14/37) at 314W the T16 or XJoy14/37 would need 90% more battery capacity to achieve the same range, so to match the range of the Genesis 1200 at cruise, it would need a 2250 Watt hour battery. Yikes!

 

[Errol Kalayci]

Suex

SUEX makes great scooters for recreational, technical, rescue and military diving. Last night I tried out the Joy2 which is the purely recreational dpv, extremely nice unit and only weigh less than 31 pounds. Had enough thrust to pull me while towing a Joy7 as well. The Joy7 is the next step up and offers much more thrust, two speeds and 55 minute burn at 180' per minute. I have included photo from last night showing Joy2 and Joy7. From there they go up to Joy14, Joy37 (exploration ocean dpv or cave - burns 140 minutes at 200+' per minute and only weights 44 pounds), XK1, etc. I personally own several of their units and believe the Joy37 is the best dpv ever made! Full disclosure - I am a SUEX dealer as well. SUEX used by WKPP for many years now,