ScubaBoard's Policy Regarding Posts Dealing Advocating Diving in Caves without Traini

[John_B]

If your moderators don't even know your policies, they're probably not worth having. Otherwise, how will they have a standard to moderate to? Can't get any more simple than that.

:shrug:

ETA: Off the top of my head, I can't think of an activity more defined by policies/procedures/standards than scuba training.

But it's your board and you can run it however you see fit.

 

[boulderjohn]

If your moderators don't even know your policies, they're probably not worth having. Otherwise, how will they have a standard to moderate to? Can't get any more simple than that.

:shrug:

ETA: Off the top of my head, I can't think of an activity more defined by policies/procedures/standards than scuba training.

But it's your board and you can run it however you see fit.

I was an ISO 9000 team leader in charge of Internal Audits. Our emphasis was making sure all team members knew all the rules and procedures. We always found inconsistencies in the work of salaried staff members regarding their understanding of company policies and procedures, despite the fact that all departments had formal training processes that the salaried staff members had to undergo during company time and for which they were paid.

There is a big difference between 1) training everyone on a staff in a paid position to do the job they are being paid to do and 2) working with volunteer staff members who aren't paid a dime to do their job, people you hope will continue doing that job in whatever spare time they may have despite the fact that you are giving them nothing but an occasional kind word to keep them on the job.

 

[The Chairman]

If your moderators don't even know your policies, they're probably not worth having.

Wow. What an amazingly horrible statement. I know it's the interwebs and that winning your point is everything, but to smear the reputations of the most excellent mod squad we've ever had is a new low. Like most volunteers, they learn as they do. If they don't understand something, they ask, we discuss and sometimes old stuff is brought back to the front so that we don't lose our focus as a community. Damn, it's like how diving USED to be.

Again, you choose a bureaucracy, and I choose a very informal group of people who's first job is to have fun and whose only other task is to enable fun. That's really why SB has succeeded while many, er most others have failed. I simply reject that premise outright as being counter productive for our little group. The only real test for a mod is that they are nice and that they show an aptitude to help others while not trying to grab authority. You think they are not worth having and I think they are the very magic of ScubaBoard.

 

[BDSC]

We allow a broad, broad range of discussion about controversial subjects on ScubaBoard except for two: Learning to dive without an instructor and diving in an overhead environment without the requisite certifications. Of all the Scuba things to discuss and debate, these are the only two that are verboten. We've survived with this in place since the inception of ScubaBoard.

Just to clarify, where does wreck diving fall? It can be diving in an overhead environment if you penetrate the wreck. I know a number of folks, including myself, who have been diving the wrecks off NC for years both inside and around the outside of the wrecks. These folks have years of experience but not the "certifications".

In my early years I was lucky enough to dive with many of these folks and so while I never got the cert, I got the training. That's why I don't have a problem with telling someone "no" who asks, "Do I need to take the wreck diving course to go wreck diving?" I suggest getting some training with more experienced persons but the course/cert is not necessary.

 

[The Chairman]

Just to clarify, where does wreck diving fall? It can be diving in an overhead environment if you penetrate the wreck. I know a number of folks, including myself, who have been diving the wrecks off NC for years both inside and around the outside of the wrecks. These folks have years of experience but not the "certifications".

Again, sharing your dive will almost never be moderated unless you have broken rules about being nice and that you use it as a way to promote learning outside of normal means. One of my favorite anecdotes is about Jean-Michel Cousteau going for a dive on the Great Barrier Reef. The dive op would not allow it because he didn't have a c-card. Too freakin' funny. He probably watched him dive with his famous daddy on the boob tube, but diving off of his boat was a "no can do". Someone somewhere, quickly issued him a c-card and got the info to the boat so the man could dive. That's just nutty and that's not what we are trying to do here.

If you've been cave diving or wreck diving before there were agencies, then God bless you. Share with us all about the humble and tragic beginnings of the sport: WE ARE EAGER TO HEAR ABOUT THAT. But with all respect, please don't tell current divers that they should follow you without getting the certs required. It's OH MY GOD safer having an instructor and while you earned your stripes dodging the grim reaper, we are rather beyond that now. We've learned from the mistakes of the past, and while we find the past fascinating, we don't need to do things in a way that gets people hurt, now do we?

 

[boulderjohn]

Again, sharing your dive will almost never be moderated unless you have broken rules about being nice and that you use it as a way to promote learning outside of normal means. One of my favorite anecdotes is about Jean-Michel Cousteau going for a dive on the Great Barrier Reef. The dive op would not allow it because he didn't have a c-card. Too freakin' funny. He probably watched him dive with his famous daddy on the boob tube, but diving off of his boat was a "no can do". Someone somewhere, quickly issued him a c-card and got the info to the boat so the man could dive. That's just nutty and that's not what we are trying to do here.

I was in the audience when Jean-Michel related the story recently, and I will take a moment to clarify some minor discrepancies in the story, since it is such a good one. According to the way he told it, the crew went to the captain and convinced him to make an exception in just this one case, so he was allowed to dive on that trip. When he got back to the states, he went directly to PADI and got a C-card so he would not have to go through that again.

 

[The Chairman]

Thanks John. I have heard so many variations that I never knew which one was the most accurate. I was hoping it wasn't just an urban, or in this case a sub-urban legend.