ScubaPro online sales question

[Hoosier]

I love the economics:

Assume new BC at LDS is $500, LP is $400.

Purchase at LP, keep 1 year, sell for $200. Purchase new BC for same price. Total cost to have 2 new BCs in 2 years time, $600. So for $100 over MSRP, I've turned my warranty/no warranty dilemna into a brand new BC instead.

The same logic can be applied to the regulator. Get the regulator from LP, maintain it religiiously (don't miss the soak/rinse after every dive), and then sell it every three or four years

 

[PhilEllis]

The same logic can be applied to the regulator. Get the regulator from LP, maintain it religiiously (don't miss the soak/rinse after every dive), and then sell it every three or four years

I am a retailer that sits on both sides of this issue.....i run a local scuba store and an internet scuba operation.

This posters original question begs a review of one of the saddest and most serious retailer issues to face our industry in many a year.............

The ONLY way to justify paying $600 for a regulator from a "traditional" scuba store (one with a business model that desires a 62% margin of profit) as opposed to paying $390 for the same regulator from an online store (one with a business model that desires a 30% margin of profit) is because you want to! As a consumer, you have to be willing to make a "contribution" to the local store because you think they deserve it. Now they very well may deserve it and you may feel that the extras you get from that store make it well worth paying 25% to 40% more for each item you buy. If this is your feeling, then no one can fault you for your thinking. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer buyers are feeling this way. It is really that simple and this is THE issue that makes it so difficult for the local scuba store in today's economy and competitive environment. This problem is further aggrevated when the online scuba store is a fully authorized dealer for the product, able to offer the exact same warranty and "free parts" guarantee, along with the lower prices......and many times, able to actually offer pre and post sale support equal to or better than the local store.

As an industry, we better develop an answer to this issue or I fear we will see fewer and fewer "local scuba stores".

Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

 

[Hoosier]

Phill,

I fully agree with you... I just tried to give another example to the previous post in the financial wise

I am also your customer and got a good experience, but it is the fact that LDS doesn't provide the same price and service as you are doing. In reality, the price difference is more than 25% and their service isn't reliable (sometimes, I am not sure what kind of service bench they have). Even, if you live in non-diving friendly location, the UPS, USPS, and FEDEX can be much better option than driving all way to the shop for the service. Of course, there is a big condition that the internet shop can provide the excellent and reliable service. You are the one of them, aren't you?

Did I try to give the chance to the LDS? Absolutely! But, they didn't care except punishing the customers. I know one local diver who contineously bought the equipments from LDS. He brought the used regualtor off ebay and tried to get the service once. It took three weeks to get it back and wan't serviced correctly. Of course, he was punished. LOL~~~~ That's the reality that the customer are experiencing in the market.

There are three kinds of cutstomers in this industry based on my observation.

1. Give MSRP and get the full inner circle service from LDS. In this case, the customers don't care about their asking price.
2. Get the equipment from the reliable internet stores including your shop and don't expect anything from LDS.
3. Get anything off ebay and throw it away later.


Sure, there are some group of people who always hang around shop and get the special deal. But, there aren't that many except the self employed, retired, or un-employed. Most customers are busy to make a living...



No more air fill threats to the local divers from LDS! Many diving site already started to have their own fill station and a portable compressor price is getting more attractive to the remote divers as long as the gasoline price goes up.

Maybe, it is the transitional period in the industry. But, I am always wondring why the customers should read the LDS's face when the customers spend their hard working money?

The customer just hope to see the internet shop like you The business pattern and model has been changed over time.....


Just my 2 psi.

I am a retailer that sits on both sides of this issue.....i run a local scuba store and an internet scuba operation.

This posters original question begs a review of one of the saddest and most serious retailer issues to face our industry in many a year.............

The ONLY way to justify paying $600 for a regulator from a "traditional" scuba store (one with a business model that desires a 62% margin of profit) as opposed to paying $390 for the same regulator from an online store (one with a business model that desires a 30% margin of profit) is because you want to! As a consumer, you have to be willing to make a "contribution" to the local store because you think they deserve it. Now they very well may deserve it and you may feel that the extras you get from that store make it well worth paying 25% to 40% more for each item you buy. If this is your feeling, then no one can fault you for your thinking. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer buyers are feeling this way. It is really that simple and this is THE issue that makes it so difficult for the local scuba store in today's economy and competitive environment. This problem is further aggrevated when the online scuba store is a fully authorized dealer for the product, able to offer the exact same warranty and "free parts" guarantee, along with the lower prices......and many times, able to actually offer pre and post sale support equal to or better than the local store.

As an industry, we better develop an answer to this issue or I fear we will see fewer and fewer "local scuba stores".

Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis

 

[TexasZR2]

Thank gawd I live in Dallas where I have the best of both worlds in ScubaToys!!!

 

[mike_s]

There are three kinds of cutstomers in this industry based on my observation.

1. Give MSRP and get the full inner circle service from LDS. In this case, the customers don't care about their asking price.
2. Get the equipment from the reliable internet stores including your shop and don't expect anything from LDS.
3. Get anything off ebay and throw it away later.

I'd say you could add a 4th type on there.

4.) Those who shop at a LDS that gives internet pricing but still get excellent customer service from the shop on all levels. Why can't you have it both ways like this? (Which leads to the next question of why would anyone settle for situation #1 ?)

 

[Wayward Son]

My LDS typically -but not always- beats internet prices. When she can't beat them, she can usually get close enough. On recent purchases she has beat prices from both scubatoys & scuba.com on identical items.

Sometimes she can't, but I'm always going to give her a shot at my business before assuming that she can't do as well or better & ordering from somewhere else.

 

[CompuDude]

No more air fill threats to the local divers from LDS! Many diving site already started to have their own fill station and a portable compressor price is getting more attractive to the remote divers as long as the gasoline price goes up.

So where are these magical dive sites you speak of? They may be common whereever you live, but they're pretty rare near the ocean. And I suppose these sites also have membrane systems for Nitrox? I have zero interest in playing alchemist and mixing my own gas.

 

[Web Monkey]

So where are these magical dive sites you speak of? They may be common whereever you live, but they're pretty rare near the ocean. And I suppose these sites also have membrane systems for Nitrox? I have zero interest in playing alchemist and mixing my own gas.

The only sites I've seen that do their own fills are places like Dutch Springs.

Although they're probably OK, the sight of a handfull of teenagers cranking out tanks like mad from a compressor stuck in shed doesn't fill me with confidence.

Terry

 

[Rishidian]

One thing I have seen over and over again on this board: Different people have different experiences with different shops.

I feel very lucky to have found the LDS that I use. They have been in business about a year, and are struggling (both owners have primary jobs that pay, so they can own an LDS that doesn't [yet]).

What really helps them, is that the other dive shops in the area have made their shops unattractive or unavailable. The closest shop has been around for decades, and seems to not be interested in getting new divers. I went in there once with a female relative to buy her a reg. They wouldn't approach us when we walked in, and barely spoke to her. Once I had their attention, I redirected them to her, since she had the money (a gift cert, so we had to use it there). The other dive shop is on a military base, and is unavailable to us non-military types.

Being that I got my OW through them, they give me a discount on my equipment. They don't have to, and it hurts them to do so, but that is how they treat their customers. I get free air fills and free equipment rentals. They do their best to sponsor weekly dives in the area, and also team up with 3 other dive shops to help divers find buddies.

They know that there are internet stores out there that can beat their prices, and when I'm looking for a specific piece of equipment that they don't have, they check to see if LP or ST has it. I also give them the chance to get it at a competitive price. If they can't, they will say so with no hard feelings.

They also provide the intangibles that make their shop great:
-A place to hang out, meet new divers, and find out what is going on in the diving community.
-When they got new shop t-shirts, I got to help pick out the design, and they ordered one in for my 3 year old without my asking.

They have gone a long way to deserve my business. The way I see it, if they go out of business, then next year's new divers may choose another recreation because their choice of dive shops just got more limited.

If you are having bad experiences at your LDS, look for another and give them your support. Different people have different experiences with different shops - and one size doesn't fit all.

 

[ronbeau]

The only sites I've seen that do their own fills are places like Dutch Springs.

Although they're probably OK, the sight of a handful of teenagers cranking out tanks like mad from a compressor stuck in shed doesn't fill me with confidence.

Terry

They are definitely hot fills. By the time they hit the 50 degree water you are not even close to 3000 PSI in an AL 80.