Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

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1. File a police report and demand that the perpetrator be prosecuted. Don't take "No" for an answer.

2. File a written complaint to the dive agency involved, sent it by certified mail and insist on a written reply and reasonable deadline.

3. Have your attorney contact the dive shop to discuss an out-of-court settlement. Even if your attorney won't take your case for a cut of the spoils, spending as little as $100 to have a letter drafted by your attorney can have a significant impact.
 
I have 3 logged dives outside of my OW training, all the same day, and this is what i would have thought.

1st, to the person who said the instructor should always be behind his students- during my last checkout dive i would not have wanted to be in front of my instructor. He always kept turning back to look at us, and we were not going long distances, but hey, Ive never been to this place before and I don't know where I'm going, so I would much prefer to follow him.

2nd, platforms are security blankets for me right now. When I was at Hudson Grotto and I could feel my weight belt slipping, where did I go? One of the platforms. There I kneeled and adjusted it properly.

If I were the student and this happened to me, I would not feel comfortable in the future going to a platform, or anywhere around other divers (that werent just diving or sight seeing) if I had a problem for fear that I would get the same reaction.If I ever lost sight of my instructor and wanted to stop and get my bearings, normally i would think another instructor would be one of the more comforting people to stop by.

Unless the student looked like he was going to run into the other instructor's student or do some harm I think the shove was totally unproffesional and out of line. I would want my instructor to contact the dive shop the guy works for and at least let them know what happened. I would not want to file a police report unless I was hurt or thought the guy was really really trying to hurt me, which does not sound like the case. But I would want something done about it so that nobody gets hurt in the future.
 
This just shows the "dumbing" down of today's scuba classes. They no longer require underwater combatives training like they did when I went through with (fill in the blank of scuba agency). The student should have switched to his bungeed necklace reg and used his seven foot hose to garrote the offending instructor.
 
Anyway, during this particular dive a "vacation" diver got mixed in amongst the class, and was a "flailer" (used arms to swim underwater). He was essentially oblivious to his close proximity to the students, hit one in the head with his fin, and with his big sweeping arm strokes was a real risk of hooking a regulator hose on one of the students.

I sympathize with this--there have been a couple of situations where I've resisted the urge to push people out of the way because they don't care or maybe don't know how to control where they're going.

---

In this case my first thought would probably be that I was interfering with something that justified me being shoved. If that wasn't the case, I'd be extremely angry. Pushing someone away because they're in "your" (otherwise empty) space is not acceptable. I'd definitely file a complaint with the agency.

If I were the instructor, I'd be even more angry. You're paying (or your students are) to take your students there and you have a right not to have them endangered or upset. Since there was space and the "intruder" was just kneeling on the platform, the local 4$$hole should've just made sure the student was OK and got on with his lesson.
 
So you are going to contact them good.

Just a quick question, how deep was the bottom near said platform?
 
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My two cents...

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?- As a student, I might be a little frightened, and very confused at the time. Afterwards, I'd likely still be confused, and maybe even a little perturbed - seeking revenge? Probably not. But I would be wary of diving anywhere near this instructor again. It would not put me off the sport, but others may be differently affected.

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.- Well, I woudn't in any way "shove" someone, but might sign to them or their instructor to turn around, or to hover off the edge if a student was having a particularly difficult time with an exercise which they were more comfortable with not having an audience on.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?- I'd have gone for "safety first" for my student. In this case, I'd have probably made sure my student was stabilized, then given him the "crazy" sign, and laughed it off underwater, and encouraged him or her to practice neutral buoyancy for the remainder of the stop (or helped them physically maintain if they had problems). On the surface, I'd have made it clear to them that that behavior was very abnormal, and not to expect divers to behave that way, further emphasizing the "community" that are divers...we know the general uptake is one of comaradarie, and team spirit. I would also let them know that that behavior is unacceptable for an instructor and that it would be "addressed", so they don't have to worry about it from them again. As for resolution, at the very *least* this instructor needs a direct consultation, review of the incident face-to-face by a respected peer or supervisor, and more (or a complete repeat) of training with a review before being allowed to instruct again. At most (which is probably overkill) jail time and permanent removal of dive status. The solution is somewhere in between.

4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?- It depends. I would want to know that said instructor was re-trained and evaluated, and approved by a respected professional, and have had a chance to personally consult with them...if necessary with a mediator before considering it. If I was not satisfied with any of these, then the answer is no, and in that case I guess it would make sense to post the times this instructor would be diving.

Is this really "one strike, you're out?" I don't know. Some of this behavior may be coming from higher up - how this individual was trained may be the problem rather than the individual themself...if that's the case it *has* to be addressed at the root of the problem, which may or may not be the instructor themself.

My two cents (perhaps dollars)....No matter what though, it sounds as if you are a high-ethics, high-quality instructor, and can reach a solution.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat more, or get on the horn with the most ethical dive instructor I know who may have some more clear-cut advice than this.

Regards,



-S
 
I would have your instructor write an incident report and send it to the appropriate agency. The student could also go so far as to file assault charges against the instructor. I can't think if any situation that could justify that kind of behavior from anyone let alone an instructor.

I agree, that dude needs to be evaluated.
 
I am the instructor that had my Student pushed off the platform.

Thanks for clearing it up, but that still sounds like assault. I think it is time for both shop owners to come together and discuss this calmly. If needed, and I think it would be advised to report this incident to the appropriate certification agency. This is especially true since police charges probably should have been filed.
 
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