Shell collecting?

[TMHeimer]

90% of the World's big game fish since 1980 are gone. Off the Northeast Atlantic Coast there is a barren ocean bottom the size of Saskatchewan due to bottom trawling. Coral is bleached all over the Caribbean due to climate change (by man?). Shops in Florida and other parts of the U.S. sell shells by the thousands, almost all which were commercially taken live. The same is said for many Caribbean countries, some which prohibit me from taking a handfull, but permit the locals to do it large scale commercially. I do understand that dive charters often prohibit collecting because it robs their area of stuff for divers to look at, which may affect business. Here in Canada nobody gives a hoot, because the shells are dull, and few people are interested anyway. I should have started diving 30 years ago when I was in my 20s and nobody cared anywhere. According to PADI, we are ambassadors for the ecology--"Take only picture, leave only bubbles." By not collecting shells, who exactly are we setting an example for-- the other 7 divers on the boat? A diver collecting a few shells is like a fisherman with a rod & reel-- as compared to a commercial fishing boat. He can also be compared to one guy smoking a cigarette outside, polluting the air, while how many cars and factories worldwide polute? Overcollecting of shells is pointless and wrong. Selling shells commercially is really wrong. Collecting a few for your personal collection? Put it in perspective, don't go way overboard on something like this, like we tend to do on a lot of subjects in today's world. Tom H

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I remember as a kid, being excited whenever I would find a cool shell. I'm a man, now. I can look at a shell, admire it for its color, shape, and symmetry, and then leave it. Maybe it'll make some kid's whole day to find it. I've got memories, photos, and the privilege of being a part of an adventure that the majority of people never get to partake of. I don't need trophies.

 

[TMHeimer]

OK guys--Now the non-PC view from a lifetime collector. 90% of the World's big game fish are gone since 1980 due to commercial over-fishing. Off the U.S./Canadian North Atlantic coast due to bottom trawling lies a barren ocean bottom the size of Saskatchewan (almost the size of Texas). Having snorkeled to collect since I was 15, I have been diving to collect for 2 years (I'm 53). Now that I dive, almost everything has closed up. Rules everywhere. Yet, shell shops in Florida, around the U.S. and in Caribbean countries sell shells that were taken live by the MILLIONS. In the Dominican, it it prohibited for a guy like me to take a handful for my private collection, yet the government OKs it for locals as a business--Thousands! Kind of like an angler buying a fishing license and observing limits, while a commercial boat in the Gulf of Mexico can take 8,000 POUNDS. Ironically, you CAN take most live shells in Florida (no limit), if you fork over money to the state for a FISHING license. Picture this: Someone complains of a guy smoking a cigarette outside as he pollutes the air, while how many cars/factories add just a LITTLE bit more to the atomsphere. PADI's credo:"Take only pictures, leave only bubbles, as we are the ambassadors for ecology and must set an example" (Ever though PADI also says "admittedly, reef damage from divers is miniscual compared to other factors-coral bleaching, etc.). By the way, I never take live coral. Question--If I don't collect shells from a charter boat, who exactly am I setting an example for--the other 7 divers on board? I do understand that charter ops often prohibit collecting because it makes their particular tourist spots less attractive to future paying customers--but this is a money thing, though they claim it's not. Come to Canada, where the shells are few and dull, and no one gives a hoot what anyone takes--is that because they're not pretty like in the tropics? Same goes for the northern states and Alaska. I understand all the damage man has done over time. But put it all in perspective and don't get so wrapped up in the little stuff like we tend to do in today's world. If every angler took every fish he ever caught, regardless of size, etc. it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the commercial guys. Same goes for true shell collectors. I never buy shells. Thanks. Tom H

 

[Coll]

If I don't collect shells from a charter boat, who exactly am I setting an example for--the other 7 divers on board?

Yes and then those 7 divers hopefully would each set the same example on the next charter they are on, etc etc. It's exponential. As for saying that commercial fisheries can gather shells by the thousands so what does it matter if you take a handful, well, that is your choice but it seems a bit like a cop out to me. "Well, they are doing it worse than me so it doesn't matter if I do it." Think globally, act locally.

 

[TMHeimer]

Type this in Google: Shell collecting ethics, about Cowries.info Interesting article by a scientist, not a diver. Apparently, according to this man, aside from a few species, shell populations are not in any danger even WITH the commercial collectors. Tom H

 

[jbilicska]

If every angler took every fish he ever caught, regardless of size, etc. it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the commercial guys. Same goes for true shell collectors. I never buy shells. Thanks. Tom H[/QUOTE]



I agree with a lot of what you say Tom but for the locals not having any effect is Totally wrong. There have been Many local hot spots that have been wiped out by regular anglers for "fun". These spots almost never come back even if if left alone for years. The secret is to stop Before it's depleted.
Over here on the East coast ,mainly NJ and NY, the Stripped Bass are making a big comeback because of very tight fishing regulations. These regulations are for the common fisherman not just the trawlers and longliners.
Yes the commercial fisherman have devastated our fisheries but the common fisherman also has to share some of the blame.

Joe

 

[TMHeimer]

Joe, I can see what you are saying, and I know it is particularly true of lakes in many parts of the US (and Canada). Too many anglers, too few lakes, fish. I can also see that it could actually become a problem in the oceans because of anglers (to a smaller extent). Regarding your Striped Bass example, I still wonder,since the new regulations, what the new limit per day for an angler is compared to what the new limit is for the trawlers, etc. I'll still bet the angler's catch is a mere pebble compared to the whole beach. TH

 

[seaducer]

I understand all the damage man has done over time. But put it all in perspective and don't get so wrapped up in the little stuff like we tend to do in today's world. If every angler took every fish he ever caught, regardless of size, etc. it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the commercial guys.

I am going to disagree with you. Recreational fishing is a serious threat for many reasons. You got it that commercial fishing is bad and needs to be watched more carefully, but the recreational guys do too. Here in NJ there are 100's of thousands of people on boats in on beaches fishing during any Fall weekend when the bass ond blues are running. Many weekends in the summer you could almost walk accross the bay from boat to boat, most fishing for fluke. Recreational fishing puts a serious draw on local populations for two main reasons.


1- there are a lot more of them than many people realize. In addition to there target species they also kill many of the bycatch for being "bait stealers". Skates, searobins and dogfish to name but three species in NJ alone.

2- Recreational fishing targets nursery areas heavily like back bays, estuaries, reefs and mangroves, where commercial fishing can't get to.

If it is only a handful of people, the impact is imeasurable. But there are MILLIONS of fisherman and divers.
There are as many "party boats", ie charter boats that can hold 60 or more people as there are commercial fishing boats in the local marina. Party boat captains are allowed extra fish per fisherman under there license, for example increasing striper catch from 2 to 3 per person. They decimate whole schools of fish every day during the season. Almost as much as the commericial boats do. Then there are the smaller charters, personal boats, surf fisherman, kayack fisherman, and even throw a few of us who spearfish in there as well. I'll be willing to bet that the difference in impact is much smaller than most people can fathom.

Oh, I almost forgot. Striped bass cannot be commercially fished for in NJ. THe entire pressure is from recreational fishermen.

And then, if it isn't bad enough, there is the commercial industry needed to harvest their bait. They go hand in hand.

Ok I'm climbing off my soapbox now...

 

[TMHeimer]

Drew: OK. Points well taken, and I did find out about the NJ law of no commercial Striped Bass fishing allowed. I neglected to take into consideration the sport fishing boats (I have been out with them 3 times), and the vast numbers of party boats, particularly in very populated areas (like my hometown of Yonkers, NY). Having lived the majority of my adult life in Northern Manitoba, 200 mls. from Hudson Bay, I tend to think of angling as one guy with a pole--like me. But, I guess you could count the fishing charters really as commercial anyway, as it is a thriving business with the objective of making money. Much like the commercial shell collectors, be they using nets, dredges or even divers--supplying the many shell shops with millions of specimens taken live. This is a major business also, as aside from just selling the shells, as shells are increasingly used in jewelry, lamps, whatever. This is in contrast to a guy like me, who collects a few specimens for a true shell collection. There are a few of us out there, and we (at least most of us) don't buy shells (except from each other), or simply take them from a reef for a souvenier. I guess one can put many spins on this whole thing, but to illustrate my point: I took 3-4 live shells once when on a dive charter and caught heck from the owner, who was aboard. Yet in her dive shop, she had a collection of fine shellson display (obviously taken live), that were given to her by a local fisherman in Honduras. Tough to figure. TH

 

[love2godeep]

If you're a shell collector, and don't want to take live shells, you're much more likely to find a good specimen below water than on the beach. Whether above or below, it's probably irresponsible to just take shells for the sake of taking them--and then letting them sit in boxes in the attic for years until you throw them out. But I will take samples for my collection. If it has an inhabitant, I put it back. Now I do, anyway.

But I am wondering why it is more noble to take one if you plan to eat it than if you plan to cherish it and admire it.....LOL