Shopping DSLRs and Housings, and a bit overwhelmed

[Kim]

As for th 40D implementation of liveview, I don't think it's going to help with macro as liveview on the LCD has to disengage to AF, and manually focusing at say 100mm will be pretty tough without an underwater tripod.

Have to totally agree with this. Given the usual VERY small DOF used in macro and how still you'd have to hold the camera between focussing, and then moving your hand to actually take the shot, it would certainly be really hard to nail the focus. This is actually hard enough to do topside, let alone U/W.

DSLR liveview isn't exactly the same as what happens on a PnS.

 

[f3nikon]

Have to totally agree with this. Given the usual VERY small DOF used in macro and how still you'd have to hold the camera between focussing, and then moving your hand to actually take the shot, it would certainly be really hard to nail the focus. This is actually hard enough to do topside, let alone U/W.

DSLR liveview isn't exactly the same as what happens on a PnS.

This is where your absolute lack of experience… absolutely shows!

Photographers call it “racking” meaning that you move the entire camera and lens and housing towards or away from the subject. Then with your finger already on the shutter release button you fire as soon as the subject pops into focus!

This is standard procedure when there were only manual focus lenses. Of course it helps to have a large true actionfinder to see the point of focus, like the Nikon or Canon’s (only made for film cameras) or a high-resolution liveview.

No need to move your hand between the focusing knob and shutter release or holding the camera still… [edited by Almitywife]

 

[Kim]

This is where your absolute lack of experience… absolutely shows!
<snip> [edited by Almitywife]!

It may very well be true.

But at least what miniscule experience I do have is real........and I have the pictures to prove it!

 

[f3nikon]

Like this:
Sorry, Personal Albums are not enabled.

And you are recommending equipment that you absolutely no knowledge of or it use???

 

[Kim]

Like this:
Sorry, Personal Albums are not enabled.

And you are recommending equipment that you absolutely no knowledge of or it use???

You should pay more attention.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3157065-post92.html

And actually....I didn't recommend anything in this thread, I simply agreed with another post about the so called advantages of LiveView.

I've never seen anyone waving a camera around U/W as you suggest though. Got some examples of good focus/DOF?

I own and use a Canon EOS 400D.

How about you?

 

[shugar]

Got some examples of good focus/DOF?

whoops, gauntlet's been thrown F3... time to put up or shut up

Jag








PS
and for whatever it's worth i have photos to show if anyone wants to see them...

 

[Kim]

Then you want me ONLY to prove this with examples, when you yourself don&#8217;t own that camera and is ignorant to the fundamentals of photography!

So....I take you DO own the camera, or at least a live view model....and are conversant with the fundamentals of photography? You're quite right....I don't. But I do listen to the opinion and experience of those who do, of which several have posted about this in the various threads. But you seem to disagree with all of them. I've also taken loads of pictures U/W and know how elusive good focus can be. That's why auto is so helpful!

Of course I'm only an amateur. The above were all taken with an Oly C5050 and auto focus. I can't imagine using manual focus on that camera U/W. YMMV.

So why don't you show us a few examples?

Photographers I know love to display their work. Why are you so reticent?

edit: Hmmm.....looks like the post I was responding to has gone. Oh well.....

 

[Warren_L]

I can't imagine using liveview for focusing while shooting macro - I think it would make me crazy. With the Oly C5050, the image was difficult to look at and gauge the focus - I guess I'm just old school, as I'm too used to using the viewfinder on my old SLRs with a decent focusing screen. As far as p&s cameras are concerned, I only speak about the Oly C5050 as this was my only u/w p&s I've ever owned - as I like to speak from experience. So in all fairness, I will reserve judgement on the usefulness of liveview on the newer cameras as I've not used them for this purpose.

There is definitely a really shallow DOF when shooting macro, and moving the camera in and out until you get the focus you want is very common. I posted this in another thread recently, but here it is again. This was using the 105mm micro with a +2 diopter. The difficulty when you're this close is the framing, holding the right position in the water and getting the lighting right.

 

[RTRski]

I think I agree with Warren L - at least in terms of the way the Oly 410 and 510 liveview is implemented. With the E330 LVA mode, you *can* 'see' and perform the autofocus while looking at the screen, and there's no extra mirror movement or shutter lag introduced. But that assumes you believe the LCD is going to show you well enough how 'perfect' your focus is. On a small screen, everything looks sharper to begin with, whether it's truly in perfect focus or just 'near' and in soft-focus. The whole argument about 'racking' just doesn't do it for me, its hard enough just station keeping long enough to let a good AF do its trick. If I wanted to play fixed-focus games, I'd have saved a boatload of cash and bought a used film dinosaur, and an extra large set of reef kebabs and grappling hooks.

The macro shots I've seen which I've really appreciated are so highly detailed, I can't imagine they were taken off the LCD except perhaps with a lucky selection out of many, many tries (but cheap throwaways is one of the advantages of digital, and better yet in dSLR due to its increased speed, unless flash refresh is the limitation). I bet even with the E330 live view A mode available for macro shots I'd have no choice but to use the optical VF to get focus right. And that is indeed going to be hard to do without bracing off something, if there's any current involved. Part of the challenge of UW photography, I guess.

While I was one of the ones who chimed in earlier on this thread saying I thought if your PRIMARY interest was macro a P&S might be more bang for the buck...after reading a lot of the opinions back and forth (including on the split thread) I'm becoming quite swayed the other way. I totally neglected thinking thru the optics of the lenses (bigger lenses get more light in) and the true 1:1 image. (Well, maybe not in the 4:3 world, ). I had justified my own dSLR purchase (again, disclaimer: not yet housed, so I'm talking thru me be-hind somewhat) by wanting to do more wide-angle...but now I'm just as excited about using it for macro work as well.

Hope this is pertinent to the OP, not to the 'hijack' subject. I guess I'm agreeing I don't see LV as a big advantage for macro, although (to me) it was a big reason I chose the dSLR I did.