Shopping DSLRs and Housings, and a bit overwhelmed
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f3nikon
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rhadamantus
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You seem to be getting plenty of good advice here. A couple of considerations:
1. I would recommend NOT getting a full frame sensor like mine. Get a cropped sensor. That means avoid Canon 5d, 1d series and (?) Nikon d2x. But I think you were avoiding those anyway.
2. Live view. You will really really REALLY miss it if you don't get it. It really is difficult to see through the viewfinder with your mask on. Just search on "what mask for underwater photography" if you don't believe me.
3. True TTL. Make sure the camera/housing/strobes you get will do actual true TTL. I"m not up on which companies offer this now, but you can search on it. Helps immensely. For me anyway. There are alot of underwater photographers out there who do not have TTL capability (until recently, only a couple of equipment combos could do it), and say they don't miss it. Having had it, however, I found it a huge hassle when I lost my TTL capability for one dive. Basically halved or thirded (is that a word?) my good shots per dive, and increases the "fiddling around before getting the shot" factor. Who needs that, when you're already having enough to do trying to get the dang juvenile baramundi in frame and in a nice pose?
4. Get the biggest strongest strobes you can afford/are willing to carry.
5. It's good you're factoring in size and weight, with the carryon rules getting so strict.
6. Some of those cameras (400D?) have a vibrating sensor thingy to keep dust of it. Mucho awesome. I wish I had that.
That's the big stuff. Hope I didn't duplicate stuff other people said - no time to read all the posts today. Have fun!
1. I would recommend NOT getting a full frame sensor like mine. Get a cropped sensor. That means avoid Canon 5d, 1d series and (?) Nikon d2x. But I think you were avoiding those anyway.
2. Live view. You will really really REALLY miss it if you don't get it. It really is difficult to see through the viewfinder with your mask on. Just search on "what mask for underwater photography" if you don't believe me.
3. True TTL. Make sure the camera/housing/strobes you get will do actual true TTL. I"m not up on which companies offer this now, but you can search on it. Helps immensely. For me anyway. There are alot of underwater photographers out there who do not have TTL capability (until recently, only a couple of equipment combos could do it), and say they don't miss it. Having had it, however, I found it a huge hassle when I lost my TTL capability for one dive. Basically halved or thirded (is that a word?) my good shots per dive, and increases the "fiddling around before getting the shot" factor. Who needs that, when you're already having enough to do trying to get the dang juvenile baramundi in frame and in a nice pose?
4. Get the biggest strongest strobes you can afford/are willing to carry.
5. It's good you're factoring in size and weight, with the carryon rules getting so strict.
6. Some of those cameras (400D?) have a vibrating sensor thingy to keep dust of it. Mucho awesome. I wish I had that.
That's the big stuff. Hope I didn't duplicate stuff other people said - no time to read all the posts today. Have fun!
danclem
Contributor
Hi Bannon:
Years ago I ran into Ansel Adams taking pictures in the Sierras. He had some of the most out of date gear I had ever seen, and yet I would have killed to take even one shot close to his level. Moral: the most current gear is great, but learn how to really use what you have, as it will soon be out of date.
That said, I use both a point and shoot and digital SLR. As noted, a $5,000 budget is very tight if you are moving into digital SLR's, strobes, and housings. I shoot with a Nikon D70s, Subal housing, and Ikelite 125 strobes for the SLR rig, and a Casio XLIM in a Casio housing for the point and shoot. I really enjoy both set-ups, and it depends on where I am and what I am shooting as to which rig I take. A lot of times I take both and use the SLR for high quality macro or pelagic portraits, and the p&s for fun jpg's of divers and scenery. The p&s can get into places where the DSLR can't (most recently a small cave with a twist at the entrance where reef sharks were sleeping in the Galapagos).
I have not met many people who could look at a photo and say what camera it was taken with. It's usually a personal preference. One of the drawbacks of DSLR's, especially compared to video, is that the smaller housings will only fit a single box. So you might want to look for manufacturers who change camera boxes as infrequently as possible.
If you do a lot of macro photograpy, my experience is that the p&s' and their strobes don't come any where near the quality of DSLR's and their strobes. I am in the Seattle area where it tends to be dark and murkey, but I have had similar results in other locales throughout the world.
Have fun!
Dan
Years ago I ran into Ansel Adams taking pictures in the Sierras. He had some of the most out of date gear I had ever seen, and yet I would have killed to take even one shot close to his level. Moral: the most current gear is great, but learn how to really use what you have, as it will soon be out of date.
That said, I use both a point and shoot and digital SLR. As noted, a $5,000 budget is very tight if you are moving into digital SLR's, strobes, and housings. I shoot with a Nikon D70s, Subal housing, and Ikelite 125 strobes for the SLR rig, and a Casio XLIM in a Casio housing for the point and shoot. I really enjoy both set-ups, and it depends on where I am and what I am shooting as to which rig I take. A lot of times I take both and use the SLR for high quality macro or pelagic portraits, and the p&s for fun jpg's of divers and scenery. The p&s can get into places where the DSLR can't (most recently a small cave with a twist at the entrance where reef sharks were sleeping in the Galapagos).
I have not met many people who could look at a photo and say what camera it was taken with. It's usually a personal preference. One of the drawbacks of DSLR's, especially compared to video, is that the smaller housings will only fit a single box. So you might want to look for manufacturers who change camera boxes as infrequently as possible.
If you do a lot of macro photograpy, my experience is that the p&s' and their strobes don't come any where near the quality of DSLR's and their strobes. I am in the Seattle area where it tends to be dark and murkey, but I have had similar results in other locales throughout the world.
Have fun!
Dan
Just some more opinion...
I never use ttl now. Manual sounds all scary and time consuming, but after you get a feel for things it really isn't. AND knowing what your light will do and how to light a scene properly is an essential skill - what happens when the ttl goes down or doesn't get you what you want? You've gotta change over to manual. So you really don't get away without knowing about manual anyway
Virtually every dslr shooter I know also has a small compact for those times the dslr is just too much! So add the cost of that to a new set-up, too
Liveview wouldn't even come on to my radar for choosing a system and I was one of those who found moving away from a LCD a bit of a change. It wasn't that big of a deal in reality, just a big change. And knowing what I know now, those alternative viewfinders you can get for many housings (SeaTool and Subal etc) are a great investment, imho.2. Live view. You will really really REALLY miss it if you don't get it. It really is difficult to see through the viewfinder with your mask on. Just search on "what mask for underwater photography" if you don't believe me.
I used to have ttl, now I don't. I almost never used it when I had it as I found manual control to be not too taxing and I like to determine what happens with my light. TTL is a fabulous tool...but again, imho, not a deal breaker at all.
I never use ttl now. Manual sounds all scary and time consuming, but after you get a feel for things it really isn't. AND knowing what your light will do and how to light a scene properly is an essential skill - what happens when the ttl goes down or doesn't get you what you want? You've gotta change over to manual. So you really don't get away without knowing about manual anyway
This is so true. Of course, I check all of my gear 90% of the time so it becomes less of an issue
This is the best advice - learn to use whatever system you have and get your diving skills up to scratch. Good diving skills aren't really enough - you need excellent skills and control.
So true! I often come across things that need compromise when shooting coz the dumb thing just won't squeeze into the small space that my trusty Oly 5050 or Canon A series does.
Virtually every dslr shooter I know also has a small compact for those times the dslr is just too much! So add the cost of that to a new set-up, too
Sorry I've been so slow replying. It's been a long travel week.
This is all VERY good advice. Most of it I "kinda" already know, but it helps me to hear it reinforced by you experienced folks.
Someone asked about how I shoot. With the SP-350, it's been mostly manual mode with manual flash (which is the reason I got it after the Sea&Sea DX3000). I would never claim to be a good photographer, but I know which levers to move to influence the pic in various ways. My current goal is to get better at setting things up closer to optimal the first time.
On the view finder (versus live view), it sounds like there are opinions all over the place. Same with TTL. Both would be new to me. I've ONLY shot live view with manual flash. I'll probably just have to try both the view finder and TTL to decide for myself what my personal preferences are. Alcina, I think it will probably be like you suggest: both are just new skills that become non-factors once learned.
RTRSki, your comment about "you can afford diving or photography" made me laugh out loud. My purchasing decisions are often measured in Cozumel trips... such as, "yeah, I could buy that new car, but that would cost the equivalent of a Cozumel trip every month." I'm justifying a new camera purchase by telling myself that it's one of the things that makes the diving experience extra enjoyable, both during and after the dive. (And no, I don't have the new car. )
I'll share a little more on my motivation for the new purchase, and BurBunny touched on it with her "I was an Idiot"/DSLR post... A DSLR should offer better pics with fewer shots and time. My wife is very patient with me, but I absolutely love to watch the critters do their thing while I take pictures. With my slow strobes and P&S cameras, that means something like... take a shot, wait 10-15 seconds for camera write and strobe refresh, setup new shot, oops he turned his butt to me, reposition, take next shot... rinse, lather repeat. With fast moving or transluscent subjects it can take a lot of P&S shots before the moon, stars, and planets align to get a reasonable pic. If I can get a couple of good shots in a shorter amount of time, my darling Scuba buddy will generally be happier with me on fast current dives. That said, a faster/newer P&S with better strobes might accomplish close to the same result.
And so now I've been consolidating the advice about having both a DSLR and a P&S and thinking that I might upgrade strobe(s) and P&S camera in the short term, but make sure to buy strobes and arms that will complement a SeaTool housing in the long term.
Thanks again for all the great thoughts!
This is all VERY good advice. Most of it I "kinda" already know, but it helps me to hear it reinforced by you experienced folks.
Someone asked about how I shoot. With the SP-350, it's been mostly manual mode with manual flash (which is the reason I got it after the Sea&Sea DX3000). I would never claim to be a good photographer, but I know which levers to move to influence the pic in various ways. My current goal is to get better at setting things up closer to optimal the first time.
On the view finder (versus live view), it sounds like there are opinions all over the place. Same with TTL. Both would be new to me. I've ONLY shot live view with manual flash. I'll probably just have to try both the view finder and TTL to decide for myself what my personal preferences are. Alcina, I think it will probably be like you suggest: both are just new skills that become non-factors once learned.
RTRSki, your comment about "you can afford diving or photography" made me laugh out loud. My purchasing decisions are often measured in Cozumel trips... such as, "yeah, I could buy that new car, but that would cost the equivalent of a Cozumel trip every month." I'm justifying a new camera purchase by telling myself that it's one of the things that makes the diving experience extra enjoyable, both during and after the dive. (And no, I don't have the new car.
)I'll share a little more on my motivation for the new purchase, and BurBunny touched on it with her "I was an Idiot"/DSLR post... A DSLR should offer better pics with fewer shots and time. My wife is very patient with me, but I absolutely love to watch the critters do their thing while I take pictures. With my slow strobes and P&S cameras, that means something like... take a shot, wait 10-15 seconds for camera write and strobe refresh, setup new shot, oops he turned his butt to me, reposition, take next shot... rinse, lather repeat. With fast moving or transluscent subjects it can take a lot of P&S shots before the moon, stars, and planets align to get a reasonable pic. If I can get a couple of good shots in a shorter amount of time, my darling Scuba buddy will generally be happier with me on fast current dives. That said, a faster/newer P&S with better strobes might accomplish close to the same result.
And so now I've been consolidating the advice about having both a DSLR and a P&S and thinking that I might upgrade strobe(s) and P&S camera in the short term, but make sure to buy strobes and arms that will complement a SeaTool housing in the long term.
Thanks again for all the great thoughts!
I LOVE this description!!
This one wins the "what I tell my significant other to justify the money that I know in my heart I'm going to spend anyway" "It's all about her/him, really. I'm doing her/him a favour by being considerate of their diving needs."
Love it, thanks for making me smile tonight before I head out (oh, and I totally think you are on the right track, too)!
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