Should graphic photos be included in reports about dive accidents?

[JamesK]

Tigerman,

I understand and appreciate your concerns. I really do. However, I do not find posting links to an open source as plastering pics all over the internet. That is why I made my suggestion of click-able links. I am not saying we should track down and post the pics, but if we have an open source news letter/blog of some sort, posting a link to that article should not be forbidden simply because of a graphic photo.


I liken this to my chosen career field. I am a Military Police Officer. In training we see videos of cops who are killed, or of IED killing our soldiers. When we are preparing for deployment or going out of the wire, some of us view YouTube for videos of IEDs and snipers, to keep our mind from becoming complacent about what could happen to us. I am also an instructor, and when I am teaching about the .50 cal M2 machine gun I show a pictures of what can happen if you do not get the head space and timing correct or if you improperly work the weapon. These are very graphic photos, but it puts that in your mind so you tend to be mode careful.

 

[fjpatrum]

Photos of dead people is not undisputable proof for anything than them being dead. Theres a reason why autopsies are needed.
Come to think of it, photos of dead people is not even proof of them being dead without any more information.
From the three photos AND ONLY the photos, from the thread that did incite this one, can you say make a certain conclusion about any of these questions?
1) Did the diver drown?
2) Did the diver suffer barotrauma?
3) If 1 and 2, which occured first?
4) Was the gas in the tank the correct, assumed mix?
5) Was the gas in the tank uncontaminated?
You may have indications to some of them, but the answers to that might be pretty obvious from the start and the indications might not even be conclusive and even less so if you dont have qualifications within the correct fields (i.e. medicine).

As for "a bit of fear" being good - No, fear is not what you want to instill in new divers unless youre actually TRYING to push them towards panic.
Yes, they should know theres serious risks, but trying to scare people straight in an enviroment where keeping cool is the most effective tool you have is in my opinion not good.

The "deceptively easy way to die" video is imo a by far better way to stress the fact that there is serious hazards to new divers.

When it comes to "not mixing feelings into the A&I threads" - dont kid yourself. If we felt nothing discussing these incidents, we wouldnt be.

Am I missing something? Isn't the "Deceptively easy way to die" video mentioned basically just photos of folks who've died diving? If not, I don't see how a video that doesn't show any death/mishaps would be educational (and not "scary") but photos would be more panic-inducing.

As for fear, it can be good and bad. Sure you might panic some new divers, but I think you'd help a lot more realize that "trust me dives" and similar attitudes are dangerous. Fear can (and in cases like this usually does, if my experience is any judge) tempers people's recklessness and keeps them focused on safety.

I don't think you need to be able to determine "cause of death" from pictures, but recognizing that people do die doing this, on more than a hypothetical/theoretical level could be quite helpful. It might reduce sales of classes, but is it worth it? (I don't actually think it would reduce participation, personally.)

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't feel any emotion for folks discussed in these threads. It's all purely theoretical to me, at least until I know someone personally who passes while diving. I use the A&I threads purely as education, nothing more.

 

[Scuba_Noob]

I think graphic images of accidents can add to the strength and effect of an argument against certain unsafe practices (or supporting safe practices). However, this must be done with respect to the victim and his/her family.

As well, I believe it's inappropriate to post these types of images in the "New Divers" and "Basic" forums. The images should be kept in the "Advanced" and "Accidents" sections.

Though showing these images to new divers might imprint fear of being careless/unsafe into their minds, the fear may prevent them from continuing diving and may cloud their thoughts while doing their first dives. Discussion of these types of incidents and the potential risks is necessary for new divers; showing them graphic photos is not.

 

[Tigerman]

@JamesK
Your chosen career is, unlike recreational diving, one where you are willingly going into what can be extremely high risk areas and you are trained specifically for it and how to handle it. I used to serve in the military (munitions and EOD infact) btw, so I know just how graphic that kinda stuff can be.
These kinds of pictures however is of limited use to John Q Public as most have no training analyzing them and the relevant information from them can easilly be described without them by people who HAVE analyzed them.

If you have seen the pictures and told me were the corpses where in relation to eachother, that the tanks where empty and the guide wore doubles and the guests wore singles, I dont need to see the pictures to deduct that they drowned and wether or not they where separated, unless I consider you a completely unreliable source.

I do see the whole "scaring people straight" argument, which in theory makes sense, but in reality theres lots of nasty pictures on cigarette packs and people still pick that pack up and have a smoke.

@fjpatrum
yes you are missing something.
The video is posted in the thread this one split from and can be found on youtube. Its a 10-minute video by Lamar Hires explaining some of the dangers of cave diving and what the result is and how cave divers train to avoid them.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

That would be SERIOUSLY bad for buisness, not to mention the potential of making already edgy new divers not only excited and a bit nervous but also AFRAID of what theire about to do..

Good, they should be. These are the risks we ACCEPT before we go diving, it's not fair to not know what the outcome of certain tragedy could be.

Have you ever heard of or seen an "Alpine Slide"? It's like a concrete roller coaster track on a mountain that you go down on a single person cart. At the top before you go down, they usually have pictures posted of people who ate it by going to fast, and their mangled faces, bodies, and skin.... makes you not want to push the lever towards really fast!

 

[Tigerman]

No, people should NOT be afraid before they go in. They should have respect for what they do, not fear...

 

[t4e]

They may or may be seen as off topic, but they are hard NOT to see as a violation of the PG rating policy of scubaboard. They are not very suitable for pre-teens..

i don't get it, PG is Parental Guidance , which to me implies that teens should not be on this boards unless they are under the supervision of an adult that can decide whether something is appropriate for them to see or not


back on topic, yes i am for graphic pictures to be posted

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I think graphic images of accidents can add to the strength and effect of an argument against certain unsafe practices.

Thing is that the divers that regularly read and participate on Scubaboard are most likely the conscientious that do actually follow the rules. Posting a bunch of deceased photos to preach to the converted does nothing more than make my bed time reading grotesque.

So I agree with Scuba-Noob. Scuba board isn't a place to post these photos. If you must, a link with a warning is fine by me.

 

[AaronRiot]

Personally, I would want photos of myself or loved ones who were involved in an incident to be posted on a board such as this. This is a learning environment, a graphic slap in the face may prevent others from making the same mistake. To take it personally would be selfish in my opinion (sorry if that offends but it is what it is).

The society that we live in as a whole has a very glorified sense of death that is not realistic. Video games movies etc all present death as being not that big a deal. I feel that when it comes to serious business a firm grasp of reality works best.

A loss is tragic, and sucks. Missing an opportunity to learn from a loss (and/or scare some sense into someone who may make the same mistake) is a waste.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

No, people should NOT be afraid before they go in. They should have respect for what they do, not fear...

Ok, I agree (or maybe I respect because I fear what can happen), but maybe they should be shown in a way that doesn't introduce fear, but instills respect.