No two ways about that. I've been picking up the bills for my dad who just got hit with Cancer for the last 6 months so at the moment, a couple bucks for air is tough for me to even justify. I'm staring at the DAN website right now. Since I'm going to take a little time to work on some skills a bit more, I'll make a point to get a membership before my next dive.
Should I be dead? (Last night's dive)
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No two ways about that. I've been picking up the bills for my dad who just got hit with Cancer for the last 6 months so at the moment, a couple bucks for air is tough for me to even justify. I'm staring at the DAN website right now. Since I'm going to take a little time to work on some skills a bit more, I'll make a point to get a membership before my next dive.
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It's a good idea to join, and a good idea to buy the insurance, but don't be afraid of calling anyway...
good luck, don
It's a good idea to join, and a good idea to buy the insurance, but don't be afraid of calling anyway...
good luck, don
Does a hood have an impact on not feeling as much ear pop on the way back up? I was wearing a hood at the time and am thinking it might have been affecting my ears not poping as much as they normally would. I doubt it's the case, but what's the opinion?
It's not a neoprene hood, it's an O'neill hood with lycra shirt. It's rubber on the outside and has a softer fleece-like lining in the inside. It's extremely tight, can barley pull it off without pulling the eyeballs right out of their sockets. It keeps the head nice and dry - the point where when I take it off my hair usually isn't very wet. Depending on my angle, air release from exhalation often gets trapped in it and forms a pocket around parts of head, sometime my ears.
I only heard pop the last 5 seconds or so before I hit the surface. Still trying to figure out why.
It's not a neoprene hood, it's an O'neill hood with lycra shirt. It's rubber on the outside and has a softer fleece-like lining in the inside. It's extremely tight, can barley pull it off without pulling the eyeballs right out of their sockets. It keeps the head nice and dry - the point where when I take it off my hair usually isn't very wet. Depending on my angle, air release from exhalation often gets trapped in it and forms a pocket around parts of head, sometime my ears.
I only heard pop the last 5 seconds or so before I hit the surface. Still trying to figure out why.
Damn, Ron you just beat me to it. I was going to say it sounds like he got a bit narced. Theres no excuse as to not finding/having your guages. Even if you dont have a computer, you should still have an analog depth and pressure guage, and you were taught in OW to recover a guage. If anything buy a $6 snap and snap it down. Itll also streamline you.
ScubaRon once bubbled...
Your decreased awareness of what was happening seems to indicate nitrogen narcosis and at 120 feet you certainly had the depth for it.
ScubaRon
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When I started snorkelling and freediving, I routinely made dives in the 15 - 20' range without equalizing. (Of course, I now know just how much risk of barotrauma I was courting!) My ears seldom if ever 'hurt', and most of the time I really didn't feel much in the way of pressure or discomfort either.
Perhaps some people are just far less sensitive to pressure changes...............
I've got a snap and had it snapped to the hose. The problem wasn't *finding* the gauge, it was reading the gauge. I was tangled around my buddies hose and could pull the console up to me and get my flashlight over it. The problem was the positioning of my buddy breathing - I was *not* positioned properly and did not have access to even my buddies eyes! This is a huge no-no.
So why was I positioned like that in the 1st place? Ahhh there is an answer even to that:
When I signaled that I needed to buddy breathe, my buddy thought I said "I've got 100 lb's and am out of air!" when what I really was saying was, "I'm out of air and we need to go up". He thought I had 100 lb's and he grabbed his octo and shoved it at my face. I took my primary out and put his octo in and began adjusting to the very different 2nd stage. Then I concentrated on relaxing for a second, then grabbed my LP and started feeling some very minor pop in my ears. I started reaching for my console and figured out that I couldn't see it unless I flipped over and turned around or something to get some leangth on the hose. By the time that occured to me, my head was out of the water. Imagine that chain of events occuring from the time the Computer attachment shows us coming up at 60' and when we hit the surface the 1st time.
The key here is that I had no communication with my buddy - he did not signal me that there was a problem as he probably assumed I knew we where rocketing to the surface. He was also operating under the asumption that I had 100 lb's of air and was out.
When I began the uncontrolled descent, he had signled the thought plight to my other buddy - thus they where both operating under the assumption that I had 100 lb's of air and was plummeting down to 100'. This was not the case. I had 500 lb's. The whole time I was plummeting, I didn't get any communication from either of them. They said they where too busy trying to recover me. IF I had gotten any kind of signal to put my own reg back in, I would have been forced back into operation mode and been able to assess my situation.
The reason they did not try to communicate was because they thought I was heading down to 100' with 100 lb's of air and wouldn't have enough air to do a descent. While it was true that I had my hands on my weight belt much of the time just in case I had to ditch it, there was still a communication breakdown.
Here's the other main thing: My buddy's got one of those LP octo's, and his 2nd stage has the shortest hose you can get. Have you ever tried to buddy breath off one of those setups? You are a Remorah. Nothing more.
The moral of this story is Communicate with your Buddy and always always always keep an eye on your depth even when it's the most impossible thing to do.
Btw, do the math on the dive and you'll find that we ended within NDL. Not within much, but like right on the line. Fortunate, yes, but still within NDL.
And yes, I probably was 'narced. I tend to get real peaceful anywhere past 60 or so feet and just don't care about much. I was so relaxed on the way down, yet in such a state of passive panic that I don't remember what I did, but I didn't bother trying to do anything nor did I probably care once we got down there, although I can't say for sure because I thought I remembered thinking, "I'm not submerging, why am I not descending... why can't I descent?! Is my LP button stuck or something? Why did we shoot up to the surface? Why is my buddy pulling on my tank? I guess they've got it under control... oh well I'll just not do anything until I get a signal... they know what their doing and we just missed a manditory deco..." The time it took for me to think that probably was most of the runaway descent I didn't know I was on, and probably part of the rocketman ascent we did after that.
I do remember my heart was beating out of my chest while we where swimming on the surface back to the boat - and the boat was quite a ways away. It took us about 3 full minutes of fast swimming to get there I think, but it maye have been much longer. A 3 minute swim with those super fins on is a long swim.
So why was I positioned like that in the 1st place? Ahhh there is an answer even to that:
When I signaled that I needed to buddy breathe, my buddy thought I said "I've got 100 lb's and am out of air!" when what I really was saying was, "I'm out of air and we need to go up". He thought I had 100 lb's and he grabbed his octo and shoved it at my face. I took my primary out and put his octo in and began adjusting to the very different 2nd stage. Then I concentrated on relaxing for a second, then grabbed my LP and started feeling some very minor pop in my ears. I started reaching for my console and figured out that I couldn't see it unless I flipped over and turned around or something to get some leangth on the hose. By the time that occured to me, my head was out of the water. Imagine that chain of events occuring from the time the Computer attachment shows us coming up at 60' and when we hit the surface the 1st time.
The key here is that I had no communication with my buddy - he did not signal me that there was a problem as he probably assumed I knew we where rocketing to the surface. He was also operating under the asumption that I had 100 lb's of air and was out.
When I began the uncontrolled descent, he had signled the thought plight to my other buddy - thus they where both operating under the assumption that I had 100 lb's of air and was plummeting down to 100'. This was not the case. I had 500 lb's. The whole time I was plummeting, I didn't get any communication from either of them. They said they where too busy trying to recover me. IF I had gotten any kind of signal to put my own reg back in, I would have been forced back into operation mode and been able to assess my situation.
The reason they did not try to communicate was because they thought I was heading down to 100' with 100 lb's of air and wouldn't have enough air to do a descent. While it was true that I had my hands on my weight belt much of the time just in case I had to ditch it, there was still a communication breakdown.
Here's the other main thing: My buddy's got one of those LP octo's, and his 2nd stage has the shortest hose you can get. Have you ever tried to buddy breath off one of those setups? You are a Remorah. Nothing more.
The moral of this story is Communicate with your Buddy and always always always keep an eye on your depth even when it's the most impossible thing to do.
Btw, do the math on the dive and you'll find that we ended within NDL. Not within much, but like right on the line. Fortunate, yes, but still within NDL.
And yes, I probably was 'narced. I tend to get real peaceful anywhere past 60 or so feet and just don't care about much. I was so relaxed on the way down, yet in such a state of passive panic that I don't remember what I did, but I didn't bother trying to do anything nor did I probably care once we got down there, although I can't say for sure because I thought I remembered thinking, "I'm not submerging, why am I not descending... why can't I descent?! Is my LP button stuck or something? Why did we shoot up to the surface? Why is my buddy pulling on my tank? I guess they've got it under control... oh well I'll just not do anything until I get a signal... they know what their doing and we just missed a manditory deco..." The time it took for me to think that probably was most of the runaway descent I didn't know I was on, and probably part of the rocketman ascent we did after that.
I do remember my heart was beating out of my chest while we where swimming on the surface back to the boat - and the boat was quite a ways away. It took us about 3 full minutes of fast swimming to get there I think, but it maye have been much longer. A 3 minute swim with those super fins on is a long swim.
ScottyK
Contributor
I'm not going to be the first one to pick up on the short donor hose 
You did however miss one or two other morals from your last post. You need to practice practice practice (did I mention practice) your buddy communication and skills.
You should be able to tell your buddy something that important without him misunderstanding you.
You should try out your buddys second stage, and octo periodically, so you know how well it does or does not breathe for you. If you guys primarily dive with each other, I would go so far as to recommend that you both have the same model primary and octo.
You should practice skills together. If you did, you would have already realized that his octo hose was too short for you too feel sufficiently mobile and comfortable. The problem could have been corrected beforehand.
Hope this helps you out some.
Scott
You did however miss one or two other morals from your last post. You need to practice practice practice (did I mention practice) your buddy communication and skills.
You should be able to tell your buddy something that important without him misunderstanding you.
You should try out your buddys second stage, and octo periodically, so you know how well it does or does not breathe for you. If you guys primarily dive with each other, I would go so far as to recommend that you both have the same model primary and octo.
You should practice skills together. If you did, you would have already realized that his octo hose was too short for you too feel sufficiently mobile and comfortable. The problem could have been corrected beforehand.
Hope this helps you out some.
Scott
And that's just what we've scheduled to do later this week - practice in a more controlled enviroment. We all recognize the need to be a team - not just buddies. To that end, we must become comfortable using each other's equiptment, and be more familiar with shortcomings or differences.
Not everyone has that luxury though. I hope this post can help someone react better if they are put in the same situation. More than one factor played into this, and it could potentially happen to anyone who ends up in an awkward situation.
The saying, "The Danger in communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished" was really seen here.
Going deep at night isn't terribly crazy. Doing a buddy breathing ascent without a guide-line is something we are all trained to do. It's a basic task. Doing such an ascent at night is a little tougher, but not something that hardly anyone on this board would say that they don't feel qualified to do. With all that in mind, and looking at the points of failure, it should be apparent that anyone could be put in this situation if they aren't ready for it. The truth is, no matter how well trained you are and how much experience you have, a simple mis-communication can cost you valuable time. That might be time that you don't have to waste if something else goes wrong and you have to react.
Well I'm off on a business trip for a couple days (don't worry I'm not flying) so when I get back I'll let you know if I'm still alive.
Not everyone has that luxury though. I hope this post can help someone react better if they are put in the same situation. More than one factor played into this, and it could potentially happen to anyone who ends up in an awkward situation.
The saying, "The Danger in communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished" was really seen here.
Going deep at night isn't terribly crazy. Doing a buddy breathing ascent without a guide-line is something we are all trained to do. It's a basic task. Doing such an ascent at night is a little tougher, but not something that hardly anyone on this board would say that they don't feel qualified to do. With all that in mind, and looking at the points of failure, it should be apparent that anyone could be put in this situation if they aren't ready for it. The truth is, no matter how well trained you are and how much experience you have, a simple mis-communication can cost you valuable time. That might be time that you don't have to waste if something else goes wrong and you have to react.
Well I'm off on a business trip for a couple days (don't worry I'm not flying) so when I get back I'll let you know if I'm still alive.
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