Should I be dead? (Last night's dive)

[ScottyK]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

So... for the rest of you folks... how would you deal with a buddy who's SOP is to go limp and let you save the day?

I'd save the day (had to once), suggest said person seriously reconsider diving as a hobby, and not dive with him/her again.

Scott

 

[crispos]

UP, you nailed that one. Definitely was a passive, narced diver.
Hope he is OK. No contact details on his profile. Even if those boys got DCS, sounds like noone knew where the frick they were.

 

[dc4bs]

I dunno if I'd go that far. Maybe if I didn't like them or they were really annoying...

I think I'd only dive with them on "easy", shallow, daylight dives for a while. Also be very sure they had the training and their situational awareness and bouyancy skills developed greatly before going deeper with them or adding more challanges like night diving again is all.
In large part, I feel it's about attitude.

Asemili knows there were major problems with the dive that night and posted what happened in order to learn from other (hopefully more experianced) divers. Many people would not have been willing to risk taking the possible ridicule and flames that might come back at them.

This is a "good atitude" in my book and I'd dive with him under the conditions above any time.

-------------

UP, I can't argue with you on the Passive panic part as I don't know enough psychology but gut feel says you may be right and it's something that Asemili needs to resolve for himself to dive more safely.

 

[pipedope]

FatCat once bubbled...


Right, this is what I call a dangerous post. The kind of commercial diving referred to here is called "bursting bladder diving" when literally translated from spanish. It's commonly used by coral hunters in the Med.

What are you talking about?
Funny, I just watched US Navy divvers doing this working on the Hunley. That was not years ago, oceans away and I didn't see any of them bust a bladder.


Before you all go off hollering at me, NO!, I'm not a coral hunter. I know some licenced ones though.

But what are you?

If ever you want to see what deep air diving does to people, go talk to these guys. Permanently glassy eyes, shaking, speech impediments,...

I didn't say anything about deep air.
This is completely irrelevent

In water recompression isn't even advisable in real emergencies. Far, far better just to administer oxygen and call for help and a medivac.

Now this is also irrelevent but actually IWR is a very useful option especially if a chamber is weeks away.
Besides, this makes my point. STAY ON THE SURFACE.
Why was he dumping air?
To try to get back down to make a slow ascent. TOO LATE.
If he had missed deco (he didn't, NDL dive) then it is a good idea in many cases to bgo back down and do the deco time.

Please, do us all a favour: read up on the theory, take a couple of courses (the DAN courses would be advisable) and forget about comparing commercial and military diving to rec diving. Us regular divers simply don't have the same physical condition as those guys.

Just exactly what theory should I read up on?
What courses?

Just exactly what would be YOUR suggestion as to how the diver in question should have acted?

And please, never, ever forget that tables and computers are theoretical models. Most of them have no connection whatsoever to reality.

Pardon me?
The US Navy tables were tested and validated by thousands of hours and thousands of dives. They have a solid basis in practice.


Heck, we don't even know for sure what the mechanism behind DCI really is. If you don't believe me, check the european issue of Diver's Alert Magazine (3rd quarter 2003).

Gee, I guess I don't know anything about this stuff at all.
Not like I have been diving since 1978.
Not like I dive both for fun and to make a living.

Now to sum up.

My point with the commercial diving example was that you are bent the instant you hit the surface. Bouncing back down is MORE likely to cause a bend than staying on the surface to sort out the problems.

Sure, there are lots of gaps in our understanding of DCI but there are some things that we know.

A BOUNCE DIVE AFTER A DEEP DIVE IS VERY DANGEROUS!

Now tell us, what exactly would you do?

 

[Snowbear]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
So... for the rest of you folks... how would you deal with a buddy who's SOP is to go limp and let you save the day?

I often dive with a buddy who's actually done this a couple times. What I did each time was do what needed to be done, which included ending the dive - the last time was in Canada a couple weeks ago . Yes, I still dive with this buddy. I'm just very aware that if I get in a pickle - I am essentially on my own, therefore I no longer do purposefully challenging dives with this buddy (I save those for when I only have one person to take care of )

 

[Charlie99]

Snowbear once bubbled...
I often dive with a buddy who's actually done this a couple times. What I did each time was do what needed to be done, which included ending the dive - the last time was in Canada a couple weeks ago . Yes, I still dive with this buddy. I'm just very aware that if I get in a pickle - I am essentially on my own, therefore I no longer do purposefully challenging dives with this buddy (I save those for when I only have one person to take care of )

Shouldn't this post be over in the thread on solo diving? :tongue:

 

[Uncle Pug]

dc4bs once bubbled...
Asemili knows there were major problems with the dive that night and posted what happened in order to learn from other (hopefully more experianced) divers. Many people would not have been willing to risk taking the possible ridicule and flames that might come back at them.

And I hope that Asemili doesn't take my posts as a flame. I agree that coming forth with the incident for peer review and risking ridicule shows Asemili is on the right track in that regard.

The reason for my initial post on the incident was not at all to take advantage of Asemili's vulnerability and commence a beating. I felt that the real underlying problem was not being addressed.

The reason for my last post was to get some of the rest of you to question your buddy selection criteria.

This world is filled with passive/regressives and some of them are divers. Do you know your buddy and how they will react (or not react) when the dive goes sideways? Both of your lives could depend on your assessment.

Folks talk about planning the dive and diving the plan... but I seldom hear much talk about buddy assessment. In our society we look upon such assessments as being judgemental and therefore some how wrong.

I view it as discernment and think it is a responsibility not only to my family but to a prospective buddy as well.

Asemili is probably very thankful he had the buddies he did... he owes his life to them. What if he had been buddied up with another passive/regressive?

 

[Snowbear]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
Shouldn't this post be over in the thread on solo diving? :tongue:

I was responding to a query on THIS thread?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Some good point being made but I'm not sure the passivity was due to a personality trait or something. I've seen a good deal of it and often it seems to come from a lack of knowledge in what to do or the confidence to do it. In my experience, with additional skill and knowledge comes the ability and confidence to act.
He didn't know where he was so he didn't know where to go. He didn't know what was happening so he didn't know how to correct it.

Ib guess I can't prove what came first or what cause the other (pasivity or lack of awareness and control) but I do believe that one can't be addressed without addressing the other.

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I guess I can't prove what came first or what caused the other (pasivity or lack of awareness and control)

Mike... imagine yourself in a situation (non-diving) where you don't know what is happening or exactly what to do but you know that there is danger... which would most characterize your response:

1. Passively go with the flow?
2. Actively attempt to manage the situation?

How would your behavior be modified by the presence of someone you deemed an expert at handling such situations?

How would your behavior be modified by the presence of someone you deemed as inexperienced as yourself?

How would your behavior be modified by the presence of someone you deemed incompetent to handle the situation?