Should SCUBA divers / the Diving industry be answerable for their actions legally?

Do you think there needs to be safe diving legislation in New Zealand?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 14.5%
  • No

    Votes: 47 68.1%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 12 17.4%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

DiveDiva_Rach

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
97
Reaction score
0
Location
New Zealand
# of dives
I ask because yesterday, here in NZ there was an incident off the Kapiti coast.
This is the news report:

Now 'idiot' dad's really in for it
By KAY BLUNDELL - The Dominion Post | Monday, 19 May 2008

A sheepish Tim Rees was left diving for cover after a stern reprimand from police - and his teenage daughter - when his trip for crayfish sparked a fullscale emergency.
It was the second time in less than a month that the Kapiti Coast diver has had to be rescued because he did not have basic safety gear. Sergeant Aaron Alderton, of Wellington, said he could face charges: ‘‘We think he's a fool.''
His daughter Briana, 15, agreed. ‘‘He was an idiot. I am glad he is okay, but he is in trouble, he is going to have a right kick up the a***. He cannot go out again until he has the proper gear.''
When Mr Rees, 49, failed to surface at 1.15pm yesterday, the two-hour search began, involving a helicopter, a fixedwing plane, the Kapiti coastguard and a police search and rescue team.
Speaking soon after he was plucked from the sea, Mr Rees agreed his actions were foolish.
‘‘I feel an idiot, I am really embarrassed, especially when you have to face your buddies on the beach.''
Mr Rees was swept south of Brown's Island, off Paraparaumu Beach, then east of Kapiti Island over a distance of about two kilometres - but not before he had caught several crayfish. He gave three of them to rescue team members after being pulled from the water.
The biggest lesson he had learnt was to always take a dive sausage with him.
‘‘In future I will take two. You cannot alert people by waving your arms,'' he said.
Though he surfaced as scheduled, he was 300 metres or more from his dive boat and was not spotted in the choppy conditions.
He said the current was extremely strong and fast as it was nearly a full moon.
‘‘It was very scary, I just went with the flow.''
Less than a month ago, he sparked a search in the same area. He had been diving alone and was caught in a rip that took him into mid channel between Kapiti Island and the mainland.
‘‘Last time he caused us to do a full alert to try to rescue him, a whole bunch of problems were identified,'' Mr Alderton said.
‘‘He dives on his own, has poor equipment and doesn't follow safety regulations.''
The two searches had cost thousands of dollars, he said.


The bit in red is slightly inaccurate in this case as there are no regulations relating to scuba diving in NZ, only industry recommendations (such as carry an SMB, don't dive solo without adequate training / experience, service your equipment annually eta) issued by the training agencies and the New Zealand Underwater Association.

My question is do you think there need to be laws in place for the individual divers /the industry at large, if these recommendations are not being taken seriously. I think in the very least this diver should be made to pay reparations to his rescuers...!

A couple of years ago there was another incident in the South Island involving the death of a diver. He was also diving solo - he ran out of air and he was found at 25m (approx) with 25 crayfish attached to his weightbelt (the limit is six and I'm fairly sure it's against industry recommendation to attach your catchbag to your person). Each time a fatality like this one or a an incident like the one yesterday is reported, there is talk of introducing legislation...

What do you guys think? Do you think that would help? I would be interested to know your thoughts.
 
My question is do you think there need to be laws in place for the individual divers /the industry at large, if these recommendations are not being taken seriously. I think in the very least this diver should be made to pay reparations to his rescuers...!


well ... i think legal action should be taken out of the equation if at all possible

idiots like this guy sadly probably need help more than the rest of us, and it's good to know that a public service is being offered to them ...

i worry that if they start "charging" people for rescue services, everything will get scrutinized ... and you usually get in trouble for some dumb action on your part at some point in the chain ... which would mean we'd all be liable at some point

i'd rather have the system available to help on a "no-fault" basis ... i just know i'm bound to do something stupid some time ... and i hope not to have to go into debt because of it
 
Ambulances charge for thier services. So do fire departments. More than once I have wished I could write someone a citation for being stupid. I think he should pay a fine.

TwoBit
 
I would have to agree with you H2Andy - I would rather legals steer clear of the diving industry. It just seems such a shame that there are idiots like this who, when all the publicity has died down, will just go off and do the same again and one day even perhaps perrish...

It's not fair on all those divers who make that extra effort (including their time and money) to be safe. :shakehead:
 
I think New Zealand should follow the American example. Here NO ONE takes responsibility for their actions. They just look for someone else to blame it on, preferably with deep pockets, and point the figure and/or sue them.

I have a letter on file with my LDS and with my family that if something should happen to me while diving on their boat, that my family should take no legal action against my LDS. I dive solo and often beyond normal dive parameters, and would not hold my LDS responsible if something should happen. The only exception would be in the event of gross negligence... and I don't see that happening with our operation. Good owners, good crew.
 
I think New Zealand should follow the American example. Here NO ONE takes responsibility for their actions. They just look for someone else to blame it on, preferably with deep pockets, and point the figure and/or sue them.

I have a letter on file with my LDS and with my family that if something should happen to me while diving on their boat, that my family should take no legal action against my LDS. I dive solo and often beyond normal dive parameters, and would not hold my LDS responsible if something should happen. The only exception would be in the event of gross negligence... and I don't see that happening with our operation. Good owners, good crew.

Having a letter on file is a really good idea although unecessary over here because of ACC (New Zealand’s accident compensation scheme which provides 24-hour no-fault personal accident insurance cover) which everybody pays. This means that in the case of an accident, no party (except in an instance of gross negligence) can be held responsible and ACC subsidise the cost of any medical treatment, time off work etc. It is a really good system.

I really do feel divers like the Kapiti one should be made to take responsibilty somehow...obviously being alive isn't enough!
 
They should send him an invoice for the search fees, especially since this is the second time in less than a month! As TwoBit pointed out, other agencies charge for their services.

Well, at least he didn't lose his catch...:wink:
 
I do not agree with your basic premise. By the same logic, the automotive industry should pay when people don't buckle up. Or the food industry should pay when people don't follow the recommendation to not eat rotten food.

No one should be held accountable for another person's negligence.
 
In this case he is the only party responsible as I read it. Or was "his" dive boat a charter dive boat, not his personal craft? Certainly seems like he is the one responsible for getting so far off course and not having correct safety equipment.
 
I do not agree with your basic premise. By the same logic, the automotive industry should pay when people don't buckle up. Or the food industry should pay when people don't follow the recommendation to not eat rotten food.

No one should be held accountable for another person's negligence.

Agree but isn't it the driver who is held responsible (at least in part) if a person is injured as a direct result of not buckling up? Can you sue a restaurant if you get food poinsoning? Can a restaurant get shut down if found to be breaching health and safety regulations?

What I'm saying is that the 'blame' often falls on the industry at large because there are no regulations. After an incident there is often talk about what can be improved? Is the industry not doing enough? etc etc

In this specific case, I believe he should pay a fine and if the boat was not his, then the charter should also contribute if they went against recommendations and let hom dive off their boat.

Just my 0.02c worth.

DD
 

Back
Top Bottom