Side Mount Bicker Battle...

[Razorista]

...guys that have popular youtube channels, if you had a youtube channel, he'd be kissing your butt right now.

Andy has a youtube channel, hasn't he?
(but I think by now he knows why you do not see HP or Steve on forums anymore)

@razor...Why are you commenting on training? You have not been trained and you're not an instructor either. ...

I am both, I do not advertise or practise it much though.

 

[Razorista]

Nice post Andy
Couldn't agree more.

Better this way @Bennno?

 

[Razorista]

A basic sidemount course simply adapts OPEN WATER skills to a slightly modified equipment basis. The only addition is the aspect of gas management of two tanks.

A technical sidemount course simply adapts ENTRY-LEVEL TECH skills to a slightly modified equipment basis.

Nearly half of a normal open water class is equipment skills and virtually all of the water-/divetime.

Most people ignore or forget how much work this was for all/most of us.

 

[Bennno]

Sometimes I wonder whether Bogearts is aware of Razorista... he must be, right?

 

[Razorista]

Your perceptions of global sidemount diving are very narrow

They are

and not reflective of the big picture. Refusing to consider that possibility also makes your perceptions blinkered.

If they are, why doesn't what you say contradict me?

PADI have provided sidemount training since 2012, at both recreational and technical levels. Do you seriously think that the majority of sidemount divers are uncertified?

Four years isn't a lot of time after that kind of training to get anywhere ;-)

I'd suggest that a tiny, tiny, minority of sidemount divers globally are uncertified.

If they are most just have the card, but are missing adequate training.

I don't care if that reflects the situation in Germany, as that is neither a hotspot for sidemount diving, nor a thriving dive-training location.

It is an important location for many dive agencies however and also a country many important figures in the dive industry and community originate from.

Basing your perceptions of global sidemount trends on what you see at your local pool or lake is just as laughable as someone who based their opinions of global soccer on what they saw in their local park.

I do not base my perceptions on that - where do you get yours anyway?

It doesn't earn people's respect... but you might get a pat on the head and a lollipop...

I do not aim for anyones 'respect', never wanted that and probably never will.

 

[DevonDiver]

Nearly half of a normal open water class is equipment skills and virtually all of the water-/divetime.

Not really.

1. Equipment skills. Set-up, adjustment, familiarity, operation, function etc..
2. Emergency/contingency skills. Air-sharing, CESA, Cramp release self-rescue etc..
3. Personal skills. Propulsion, breathing, stability, control, compensation etc..
4. Non-technical skills. Communication, team work, situational awareness etc..
5. Psychological skills. Stress management, focus, discipline etc..
6. Operational skills. Dive planning, run-time management, ascent protocols etc
7. Mission skills. Specific to the specialist area, if applicable; guideline use, DSMBs, liftbags etc.

Equipment skills are just the tip of the iceberg. But they are nonetheless important and part of a very holistic necessity.

 

[Razorista]

Sometimes I wonder whether Bogearts is aware of Razorista... he must be, right?

Probably doesn't like me either.
But I wouldn't care much. He does not know me personally besides meeting him once at a presentation of his.

People on the internet really are 'strange'.

 

[Bennno]

@razor, it's not that people don't like you. You come across super as arrogant and at the same time you don't really know much. You have a lot of guesses and theories and you have very little real-life experience. You are overestimating your expertise big time.

 

[bluemed]

You should become a politician ;-) great explanation..

What you don't get, Razorista, is that your initial premise is incorrect. Why would anyone bother debating a faulty premise?

I see plenty enough sidemount divers of atrocious skill. Some of them come to me for clinics, because their initial training let them down and didn't deliver. Done badly, sidemount really sucks... and it's an unstable, uncomfortable mess.

I've also seen countless backmount divers of remarkable skill. Likewise, I've seen both terrible and wonderful teachers of backmount (tech/doubles). For initial skill development, the quality of teacher has as much, if not more, impact than the aptitude of the diver.

Skill comes from effective tuition, motivated learning and diligent practice....plus a certain degree of individual aptitude. Equipment does not provide skill. Nor does it empower or enable skill.

So there's nothing really to debate. What you are stating about backmount versus sidemount is either ill-informed, naive or there's a failed safeguard between your reality and fantasies.

You just resist being told that.... and push on with a faulty premise that's not going to go anywhere.

I wouldn't agree. Equipment is equipment. You learn specific skills and adapt generic skills. You learn set-up, configuration and adaptation. You learn how to apply the necessary protocols.

It's not rocket-science, nor is it miraculous. It's pretty bloody simple stuff.

A basic sidemount course simply adapts OPEN WATER skills to a slightly modified equipment basis. The only addition is the aspect of gas management of two tanks.

A technical sidemount course simply adapts ENTRY-LEVEL TECH skills to a slightly modified equipment basis.

The only issue with zero-to-hero instructors is their lack of familiarity with the equipment - when all they are supposed to be doing is teaching that equipment. That issue stems mainly from recreational sidemount instructors who lack a technical instructor's expertise and insight into setting-up and configuring equipment; rather than donning and adjusting kit via adjustable buckles.

I know this, because I qualified some of the course directors that now qualify the current generation of sidemount instructors. Those instructor-trainers aren't specialist in sidemount, nor expert in fundamental (tech/overhead) skills,... and they don't dive sidemount as their primary configuration... most dive it only when teaching it (which is very occasionally). It doesn't take a genius to see the breakdown in expertise. They, nonetheless, deliver standard agency course syllabus to the agency specified standards.... but are limited with their equipment and protocol familiarity...especially on the diverse and growing range of sidemount rigs on the market. But they can strap their instructor students into a Hollis SMS50 off-the-shelf and tick all the right boxes.

You seem to view any 'non-elite' sidemount instructor or diver as sub-standard. That's naive. Yes... we have icons like Bogearts, Martin, Dallas etc... who market themselves exceptionally and have elite reputations stemming from cave diving. They charge big-$$$ and provide a syllabus far in excess of the basic requirements. They include, as standard, refined fundamental skills that compliment the equipment based training... and transition practices and procedures from technical and overhead diving... introducing them at the earliest stages with a 'beginning with the end in mind' philosophy. Sound familiar?

That's a modern trend... a business model that became popular with the success of GUE. It's uncompromising in quality and reflected in cost. It's also a tiny niche market.

Below this we have a scale of instructors... ranging from awesome 'elite' instructors who don't have much time, expertise or interest in social media and internet marketing... down to dedicated 'non-elite' sidemount instructors, through to competent generalist instructors that run good sidemount courses... down to the zero-to-heroes who learned in a few days and dive sidemount only when they have a sidemount student to teach once or twice a year. The further down that scale you slide, the less is provided beyond the bare-bones equipment conversion necessities.

Last, but not least, we have a tiny....and diminishing... minority of instructors who jumped on the band-wagon at an early stage and hopelessly made it up as they went along. They're basically scammers... Their numbers are diminishing for two reasons; firstly because the consumer is better educated about what to expect from sidemount training... and secondly, because even those scammers learn something over time and start getting it right.

I initially learned sidemount from a very elite instructor... Bruce Konefe. He doesn't do a lot of articles, or have time for glamorous YouTube channels and fancy webpages... so people on the fringes won't have heard of him. He doesn't have 'fan-boys' on chat forums. He is, nonetheless, an elite instructor with staggering amounts of experience at phenomenally high levels of diving; and has taught for decades. There are quite a few like him... 'unsung heros'.... quietly producing the future generations of world-class divers.

That's the world of sidemount instruction right now. It's varied... it's developing.... and it's not some sort of dark or mysterious art. Simple equipment, basic skills and a growing cadre of developing instructors who teach an eager and increasingly informed demographic of consumers.

 

[Razorista]

Not really.

Yes, you are right, I shouldn't have tried to put it that all into 'one word'.

1. Equipment skills. Set-up, adjustment, familiarity, operation, function etc..
All completely different in sidemount config, including SMB use, etc...

2. Emergency/contingency skills. Air-sharing, CESA, Cramp release self-rescue etc..
All different or probably even not needed anymore. I would not teach CESA in a sidemount class.

3. Personal skills. Propulsion, breathing, stability, control, compensation etc..
All different or at least much more complicated and advanced

4. Non-technical skills. Communication, team work, situational awareness etc..
Partially different. Since focus is more on self reliance, probably very different.

5. Psychological skills. Stress management, focus, discipline etc..
In my opinion: easier in sidemount. Greater feeling of control, less stress.
Totally different because of that.

6. Operational skills. Dive planning, run-time management, ascent protocols etc
More complex gas management, and different in other ways as well.

7. Mission skills. Specific to the specialist area, if applicable; guideline use, DSMBs, liftbags etc.
As said above, SMB transport and use is already different, liftbags are carried by many for redundant buoyancy, requiring good training and skill to use them fast enough - or the knowledge that it does not work for you anyway,
guidelines... man did I have trouble when I always refused to keep my hand on the line on decends and accents in Egypt...
Use of lines for overhead is not taught actively by many instructors to keep the students out of there and within 'rec diver conditions'.

Equipment skills are just the tip of the iceberg. But they are nonetheless important and part of a very holistic necessity.

Equipment influences most skills and the way to teach and learn them correctly and efficiently.
As you can see above.