Side Mount Bicker Battle...

[Razorista]

@razor, it's not that people don't like you. You come across super arrogant and at the same time you don't really know much. You have a lot of guesses and theories and you have very little real-life experience. You are overestimating your expertise big time.

Who are you to judge anyones experience? (I do NOT mean that as an insult!, I'm just curious/irritated how you get those ideas)

 

[DevonDiver]

@razor overestimating your expertise big time.

More a case of underestimating the expertise he argues against. I don't mean me.. or anyone on this forum... but rather the sum total of sidemount expertise, millions of in-water hours and the accumulation of knowledge gained in real-world expeditionary-level tech application of sidemount.

To think that experimenting or testing "once or twice" in a swimming pool, with a particular concept or approach can somehow challenge major global trends and community evolution.

It's like arguing against the scientific community that the world is flat, because "I put a ruler on my kitchen floor...and it's definitely flat". Scope is everything.

 

[Bennno]

Who are you to judge anyones experience? (I do NOT mean that as an insult!, I'm just curious/irritated how you get those ideas)

Because you told people on at least 3 different forums now that you mostly dive in a duck pond and an 'indoor dive center' (a pool) and that you didn't get training and don't want any training. I also saw videos on your youtube channel and read many of your posts. That's how I get these ideas.

 

[Razorista]

More a case of underestimating the expertise he argues against.

I don't.

I don't mean me.. or anyone on this forum... but rather the sum total of sidemount expertise, millions of in-water hours and the accumulation of knowledge gained in real-world expeditionary-level tech application of sidemount.

And what did that have to show for all those water hours before Steve Bogaerts first video?

To think that experimenting or testing "once or twice" in a swimming pool, with a particular concept or approach can somehow challenge major global trends and community evolution.

I never experiment in pool conditions. I prefer controlled environments though.

It's like arguing against the scientific community that the world is flat, because "I put a ruler on my kitchen floor...and it's definitely flat". Scope is everything.

Sure feels like that sometimes.
But I will convince you of this climate change someday

 

[Razorista]

Because you told people on at least 3 different forums now that you mostly dive in a duck pond and an 'indoor dive center' (a pool) ...

As I said, I do not like pissing contests, I don't take part in them.
I also do not like to visit some popular dive sites in Germany because of 'attitudes' of the people I meet there or meet coming from there.

And I did not tell people on 3 different forums, people like you do that for me, constantly

 

[Bennno]

And I did not tell people on 3 different forums...

Oh yes, you did, buddy. How would I know otherwise?
And about the pissing contest; you tell people that you have a 1000 SM dives all the time.

 

[DevonDiver]

This is the sort of nonsense that people try to counsel you about. If you took a little time to research before replying, then you'd get more out of it.

1. Equipment skills. Set-up, adjustment, familiarity, operation, function etc..
All completely different in sidemount config, including SMB use, etc...

A single-piece webbing harness with chest and waist D-rings and a buckle that runs through metal plate at the back. The DSMB and spool live on the rear crotch D-ring. A long hose hog routed from the right. A short hose bungee-necklaced around the neck from the left.

Am I describing my backmount or sidemount rig?

2. Emergency/contingency skills. Air-sharing, CESA, Cramp release self-rescue etc..
All different or probably even not needed anymore. I would not teach CESA in a sidemount class.

Signal OOA - Locate and secure air-source - signal "ok" - ascent.

Sidemount or backmount?

3. Personal skills. Propulsion, breathing, stability, control, compensation etc..
All different or at least much more complicated and advanced

If you don't understand, ask. These are personal skills... one's control and mastery of one's body to perform a given function. For example... like running. It's running... regardless of what brand of sneakers you wear.

4. Non-technical skills. Communication, team work, situational awareness etc..
Partially different. Since focus is more on self reliance, probably very different.

Zero difference. The clue is in the name "NON-TECHNICAL" skills. Google the term if you haven't heard it before. Ignorance isn't bliss.

5. Psychological skills. Stress management, focus, discipline etc..
In my opinion: easier in sidemount. Greater feeling of control, less stress.
Totally different because of that.

Again, you fail entirely to comprehend. These are psychological SKILLS. They are the capacities of the individual. What you are talking about are stressors. Entirely different.

6. Operational skills. Dive planning, run-time management, ascent protocols etc
More complex gas management, and different in other ways as well.

Beyond gas management, there are no differences.....and that's allowing you to 'forget' that diving independent doubles is hardly the preserve of sidemount divers...

Your insistence on arguing is reaching borderline stupidity.... and this goes well beyond inane clutching at straws.

7. Mission skills. Specific to the specialist area, if applicable; guideline use, DSMBs, liftbags etc.
..Use of lines for overhead is not taught actively by many instructors to keep the students out of there and within 'rec diver conditions'.

Again... in an attempt to educate, I will point out the misunderstanding. Mission skills are attributable to specific tasks that the diver undertakes on specific dives. Your inability to listen, or comprehend, is reflected in your reply. IF... IF....IF... your mission is to penetrate a cave... then you learn mission specific skills; for instance reels and guidelines.

If that is too subtle for you... then consider if your mission was to survey a reef, or recover a ship's bell, or photograph nudibranch, or collect living fish samples from the mesopelagic zone...

OF COURSE these aren't taught on a basic sidemount course!?!? Why would they? What sort of gibbering idiot would expect activity specific skills on a generic recreational open-water environment course?

As you can see above.

Sorry, but all I see "above" was incomprehension of a quite well articulated concept.

 

[DevonDiver]

And about the pissing contest; you tell people that you have a 1000 SM dives all the time.

What you must understand is that some people have a driven urge to appear knowledgeable and be seen to speak with authority. For some, it can be a compulsion, beyond reason or logic. For others, it's an immaturity or insecurity issue.

Whatever the root cause, it's better to have no illusions that the sufferer will abandon their compulsive stance; regardless of what they are confronted with. Indeed, the more they are separated from their feelings of authority and expertise, the more protest and effort can be expected to regain it.

The best that can be expected is that the person concerned will fight their corner until the debate subsides, then they will go about a process of re-entrenching their views to encompass the new knowledge or understanding they actually gained from the encounter. In later incidents, this understanding will be re-presented with the goal of establishing further authority on the issue.

Frankly, I just love teaching and writing... so if there's a chance what I post here will help with anyone's education, then I feel it is worthwhile.

 

[bluemed]

Yes mate, awesome teaching, good argumentation.

What you must understand is that some people have a driven urge to appear knowledgeable and be seen to speak with authority. For some, it can be a compulsion, beyond reason or logic. For others, it's an immaturity or insecurity issue.

Whatever the root cause, it's better to have no illusions that the sufferer will abandon their compulsive stance; regardless of what they are confronted with. Indeed, the more they are separated from their feelings of authority and expertise, the more protest and effort can be expected to regain it.

The best that can be expected is that the person concerned will fight their corner until the debate subsides, then they will go about a process of re-entrenching their views to encompass the new knowledge or understanding they actually gained from the encounter. In later incidents, this understanding will be re-presented with the goal of establishing further authority on the issue.

Frankly, I just love teaching and writing... so if there's a chance what I post here will help with anyone's education, then I feel it is worthwhile.

 

[Razorista]

... 1000 SM dives all the time.

Yes, but I only started answering when people try to call me out on my experience.
And I am talking about 'a thousand' since that is a few hundred behind me by now, with me additionally not having logged hundreds, since I stopped caring long before I reached 900 and only briefly got distracted by it when trying to make the 'official 1000' something special, had to 'forget' to log a lot of boring ones for that.

Not a great number of total dives, but for a diver in the area I life it is a lot, enough to be proud of.
In sidemount I have rarely met anyone from Germany coming close. I regularly meet divers with years more experience in sidemount but a lot less 'real experience'.

I have gotten very 'thick skinned' over the years, proved all of my critics wrong more than once to stop caring for insults anymore.