Skin Bends

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Unexpected Decompression Illness

@Rich Keller: you are quite certain in your opinion. However there are many cases of unexpected DCI, see the reports in the link I posted above. It is simply not always preventable or someones fault.

Nothing about this is 100% certain, that is the point I was trying to make. Even the most conservative tables are not 100% right all the time for everyone so when you remove the built in safety margins from those tables by using a computer you are increasing your risk.
 
Feeling great this AM and now to resist the temptation to get wet again. Have three more days to sit and watch everyone else before going home. Will....fight....the.....urge....
 
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Maybe a mod can move it??

islanddream, we will be in Europe this summer - I know tough life right?? Alyssa will be studying abroad in Madrid this semester so no diving for her, and the wife and I are going to meet up when she's done.

Thanks for the concern all, and it was just so strange and surreal that I hope someone will benefit for at least knowing what such an incident can be like.

This however ain't a bad consolation prize!!
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I hope the drip and the O2 are working, Tom. I feel so bad for you that your diving got cut short. Traveling from the west coast to Coz takes a lot of time, as well as money and preparation, and to not be able to dive.....well dang! At least you are enjoying the BA, the view, and the libations!

Yes, I feel so bad for you that you have to go to Europe this summer :wink:. Enjoy, have fun, and tell Alissa HI from us.

Keep us posted as to how you're doing.
 
DDM, Doc Vikingo, are there set guidelines for future diving in people who've had skin bends?

Richard.

I'm going to say this because I have a lot of experience with skin bends, so please no scolding. My behavior was dangerous and STUPID, but I'm lucky and very much alive and well. Here goes:

I have had serious skin bends dozens of times accompanied by aura and bad chokes. Chokes aren't fun. When you inhale it burns and when you exhale you cough. You just can't get enough air. I never sought treatment because my symptoms subsided within a few hours and I generally felt fine the next day with soreness in the area where the rash was that felt like I got into a bar brawl. I don't recommend this to anybody but I often went diving again the next day. Once on a liveaboard in Tahiti, I was so bent one night that it took all I had not to report it. I didn't want to force the boat back to port and "ruin" everybody's trip. I went diving the next day since my symptoms were gone. Another time in the Bahamas, I got bent as a result of diving after making multiple free dives with dolphins. I actually made the next dive THAT day and decompressed for an hour at 25 feet since that was the maximum depth of the site. My symptoms were gone by the time I surfaced. I continued to dive the rest of the trip. Again, I didn't want to "ruin" everybody's trip.

I had my PFO fixed nearly 5 years ago and haven't had a single problem since. I should be dead as a result of my reckless behavior by continuing to dive and not getting treatment. My bubbles were in dangerous places and it's a miracle it didn't kill or paralyze me. How long to stop diving after skin bends? Many doctors will tell you many different things. Just don't do what I did. I'm in the DAN study and named "Ann" in one of their articles.
 
I am glad to hear you were lucky on the couple of hundred dives you did previously with your computer but it was nothing more then just luck. Computers will give you more bottom time then diving a square profile but that extra time comes from cutting out the built in safety margins of a square profile. These margins come from decades of testing by the US Navy and the algorithms used on the computer are derived from the Navy tables minus the built in safety factors. Another problem is that you may not fit the physical type the computer program was based on so to account for that you add in a safety stop at 15'. The time spent at the safety stop takes away from your actual time ON the bottom so you do not gain as much time as you think. What additional time you did gain caused your problem unless you are one of those people who is more susceptible to the bends but that is very rare. Loss the computer, get a good bottom timer, dive a square profile and you should never have this problem again.

I see some logistic holes here draw some different conclusions. The assumption seems to be that tables are more conservative and thus safer than computers, that computers liberal NDL allowances are unduly risky at their extremes, and doing multi-level dives (particularly) multiple, perhaps over multiple days) within computer limits that tables wouldn't have allowed is reckless and if you don't get bent you're 'lucky.'

If I got the basic reasoning right. My 2 cents:

1.) Computers mainly give much more NDL on multi-level dives (e.g.: the reef dives more people do).

2.) You can always say that diving more conservatively, farther from NDLs, is safer. Up the conservatism setting on your computer. Use a Suunto instead of an Oceanic (the conservatism of Suuntos being often debated). Dive nitrox but set your computer for air. Use tables on multi-level dives as if you spent all your bottom time at the max. depth. Don't get near your NDLs. Maybe don't dive over 20 feet deep, or for over 20 minutes? Perhaps stay on the boat?

3.) Tables and a bottom timer may get your times similar to a computer, I suspect, when diving true square profile dives, such as some wrecks, where most of the dive is spent near the max. depth. In that case, tables could be about as reckless as a computer!

4.) Many people dive computers for multi-day multiple multi-level dives without evident harm. A small minority get bent for reasons we still don't understand well. It's not reckless.

5.) If you're going to dive tables, you might want to pursue solo certification/training, because a lot of people on vacation won't want to cut their bottom time short for somebody stuck on tables.

6.) Any time you submerge breathing compressed air, you're playing an odds game as to DCS risk. The perceived risk of serious DCS is low enough that it does not justify doing every dive with tables & a bottom timer using square profile methodology on multi-level dives.

Richard.
 
+1 with DDrich2.

There are conservatism levels on most computors, that are already very conservative. I do not belive that the usage of tables will give a better result for the reason that most computor algorythms are calculated on the very same tables. Of course, if you make a multi level dive calculating with table based on your makimum depth, you will be safer. But then, you are "cheating" the system. :)
 
2.)Don't get near your NDLs. Maybe don't dive over 20 feet deep, or for over 20 minutes? Perhaps stay on the boat?

3.) Tables and a bottom timer may get your times similar to a computer, I suspect, when diving true square profile dives, such as some wrecks, where most of the dive is spent near the max. depth. In that case, tables could be about as reckless as a computer!

4.) Many people dive computers for multi-day multiple multi-level dives without evident harm. A small minority get bent for reasons we still don't understand well. It's not reckless.

5.) If you're going to dive tables, you might want to pursue solo certification/training, because a lot of people on vacation won't want to cut their bottom time short for somebody stuck on tables.

6.) Any time you submerge breathing compressed air, you're playing an odds game as to DCS risk. The perceived risk of serious DCS is low enough that it does not justify doing every dive with tables & a bottom timer using square profile methodology on multi-level dives.

2) So you can not dive without your computer? When your battery dies then you are the one staying on the boat?

3) If the dive is a square profile it makes the computer as safe as the tables not the other way around.

4) I explained some of the reasons you do not understand well.

5) So you let the opinions of others dictate the amount of risk you take?

6) Every time you dive you are taking calculated risks. I chose to take far less risks then the average sport diver.

PS: 2) What happens if you battery dies during your dive? Do you cut it short and take your buddy to the surface with you? Maybe you keep going and just hope for the best so you do not look like you don't know what you are doing?
 
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2) So you can not dive without your computer? When your battery dies then you are the one staying on the boat?

3) If the dive is a square profile it makes the computer as safe as the tables not the other way around.

4) I explained some of the reasons you do not understand well.

5) So you let the opinions of others dictate the amount of risk you take?

6) Every time you dive you are taking calculated risks. I chose to take far less risks then the average sport diver.

PS: 2) What happens if you battery dies during your dive? Do you cut it short and take your buddy to the surface with you? Maybe you keep going and just hope for the best so you do not look like you don't know what you are doing?

2) Just because you use a computer doesn't mean you don't know how to use a bottom timer and tables or the pre-dive function of your computer

3)tomato, tomahto potato, potahto

4)You're a genius. We all wear a helmet and ride the short bus. Better? This isn't rocket science.

5)No, I make my own personal risk assesment based on knowledge of my own skills and experience and input from others I know and trust. (While I'm not as experienced as you according to your profile, it has served me well to date) As an example, I'm taking what you're dishing with a grain of salt.

6)Abolutely your right as a well reasoned, intellegent individual.

PS: 2) I go into each dive with a plan. I carry a bottom timer (watch) and depth gauge as well as my computer. I have a pretty good idea of the dive parameters and associated NDL before I splash. Plus I generally have some experience with like dives. If the computer craps early, depending on the situation, I probably continue the dive in an abbreviated fashion staying well within the NDL for the max depth. If I'm half way through the dive or more, I probably cut the dive short, make my way back to the up line (if a moderately deep wreck for example), and make a safe controlled ascent, making all appropriate stops.

I don't wrap myself in bubble wrap and stay in my lazyboy living in fear of a DCS hit. (Last comment is a bit over the top and apologize in advance, 'cause I found your post a bit condescending):D
 
It is a bit easier to make a square dive when you are a commercial diver, involved in demolition work or you are lobstering with a narguile :). Recreational diving is a bit different. FYU, if your battery goes off during a dive, it is YOUR fault. Never happened to me :)
 
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