Snorkeler killed in Keys

[bebo]

Responsability is a matter that concerns to ALL of us. A lesson must be learned, at least, because someone is dead right now. The worst part is that it was something that could be so easily avoided by either party.
Let's educate us all, divers, snorkelers, boaters, everyone. Let's have respect for human life.

 

[USMC Diver]

:dunce:

 

[Babelfish]

jrg once bubbled...


"Contender" isn't some macho-looking name plastered on the back of some rich kid's offshore speedboat! It's the brand name of a center-console fishing boat, similar to a Boston Whaler. 30 knots is making decent headway but it's certainly not wreckless. 100 yards may be plenty of distance from shore to open it up, depending on the local laws.

Get your facts straight, and don't rush to blame the boater every time some tragedy like this happens. The snorklers weren't using a flag, surfaced right in front of a boat, and got hit. Enough said.

So you feel they deserved to get hit for their stupidity. You sound like a really sensitive and caring person.

 

[jrg]

Babelfish once babeled...



So you feel they deserved to get hit for their stupidity. You sound like a really sensitive and caring person.

Why, thank you. I guess I am a really sensitive and caring person, if you do say so yourself. I wouldn't wish a thing like that on my worst enemy, except maybe lawyers & politicians. But deserve's got nothing to do with it. It's still not the boater's fault this tragedy happened. What if someone diving without a flag popped up in right front of your boat while you were under way? What would (could) you do? Wait... Maybe you're not a boater... What if someone popped their head out of a manhole in the street right in front of your moving car, without any orange cones or barrels around? "Well if they do, I hope you get an opportunity to explain to a judge why you were so careless"... I don't think so -- it's the same thing. The hypothetical guy popping out of a manhole for his recreational whatever-purpose doesn't "deserve" to die in an accident, but sooner or later, he might. It's the same thing with popping yourself out at the water's surface in a navigable waterway. Don't do it without a diver-down flag, or you might get propped. Horribly. And I wouldn't place blame on the guy or gal that does it to you. Their life could be screwed up forever because of your stupidity, too.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

jrg once bubbled...
What if someone popped their head out of a manhole in the street right in front of your moving car, without any orange cones or barrels around?

Now you are driving your car looking out for those open manholes with cones around them. Suppose those manholes are on the interstate, and the cones are 12 inches high (regulated size of a dive flag). How fast can you recoginize and react to avoid the hazard? We require larger warnings with greater distance to allow for sufficient reaction time to avoid disaster.

Now suppose you are driving through a residential neighborhood looking out for those open manholes. Do you drive at interstate highway speeds? For the rest of us, lets hope not. The enar shore waters are the "residential neighborhood" of the aquatic world.

At what distance can we expect a boater to see a dive flag? The boater needs to be able to stop their vessel or divert course in time to avoid coming within 100 yards of the flag. The diver or snorkeler could be anywhere within a 100 yard radius - even exactly 100 yards closer to the boater in line with their direction of travel.

Additionally, keep in mind that no flag is required of swimmers under Florida law. Only by virtue of using a mask and snorkel does someone incurr the obligation to drag a flag. Think it's unreasonable for someone to go for a swim within 100 yards of shore?

 

[mardigrastexan]

The majority of the replies to this thread are unfounded and probably are based more on speculation than fact. First of all, the person that was struck by the prop was 79 years old and lobstering. This was not the first time this man has been lobstering,and he was a resident of the Keys. This was obviously not the first time this man has been in these waters and I'm sure he knows of the local regulations and the "ways" of the boating community. For this man to be 100 YARDS,not feet, off shore,snorkling for lobster with no flag is a serious mistake on his part. The boat that struck this man can stop EXTREMELY quick at 34.6 mph. And, at 100 YARDS off shore this boater has every right to go this speed,and MUCH faster. If I'm correct(correct me if I'm wrong), Florida law requires boaters to be a minimum of 100 yards off shore in swimming areas,which they were.If the snorklers are going to be near that 100 YARD limit ,GET A FLAG. Twenty bucks for a flag and he's alive today!! Also, the waters of the Keys are,for the most part, extremely clear. If the snorklers had a flag, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb. I'm an avid boater(owned many of them) and diver and I find the fault of the ACCIDENT to be the snorkler's. Had the snorkler had the REQUIRED flag,the accident most likely wouldn't have happened. GET A FLAG and stay ALIVE!!

Oh, and one more thing(bebo), this couldn't be avoided by the boater. He wasn't driving a submarine!!

Also, for those of you that don't know, i boat has a steering wheel,thus making it able to steer clear of the snorklers. Some of you seem to think this was an ocean going tanker with no menuverability. This boat can react on a dime.

Get the flag!! That way we won't have to have a discussion about who's at fault when such a tradgedy occurs....and,yes,i do have feelings for the snorklers.

Of course this is all just IMHO.

 

[adder70]

I have to agree that fault did not lie with the boater. 30 knots is not that fast and 100 yards is a long way out. A boat will stop pretty quickly when not under power. You are not on wheels like a car! No brakes because they aren't needed until about 5 mph or less. Also, most boats turn remarkably quick, so 20 feet is usually enough to avoid an object like a person in the water, if you see them. A dive flag is remarkably visible in open water, so while a larger flag might be better, the regulation size is sufficient.

It is clearly a tragedy that this happened, and the diver obviously didn't deserve to die, but he did fall victim to his own carelessness, not the carelessness of the boat driver.