STA for warm water diving.

[JWU42]

Mer,

The bolts I have are fine after all. I am down doing Fundies with Dean Marshall now. he is in favor of using the STA even with the newer Pioneer Wings (with a built-in STA). Major demerits during first day - nothing but "standard" mouthpieces - no Seacure or comfobite (I have Seacure on primary and Comfobite on Backup).

Thanks again for the comments - good comments on diving doubles today as well...

 

[mer]

Thanks,
Glad you are enjoying your class.

Yeah, seacures can be horrible, esp if you don't have a small mouth. But, believe it or not, I have a buddy who is so used to the comfobites now, that he was "shocked" when he got my long hose on an s-drill and it had a standard mouth piece.

 

[nagonoj]

I dove with Eclipse wing 30 lbs with SS back plate & aluminum STA. I wore 3 mm wet suit with 2 lbs lead weight, I was a little negative in the beginning of the dive but it was ok, infact I prefer to have some ditchable weight for safety margin. I'm thinking of getting an aluminum plate and then add Halcyon ACB as ditchable weight. Anyone has experience using ACB? let me know what its like.

 

[Grajan]

I've been researching weight pocket options for a similar rig and have come the following untested conclusions:

The Halcyon ACB pockets are too bulky and take up a lot of real estate needed for other things. They are also expensive at $119 a set (12# capacity).

The Diverite Transweight 16 pockets are much smaller but also $119 for a set (16# capacity).

I am inclined to go with a couple of XS Scuba pockets and pull out the individual weights if I ever need to dump them. total cost $16 (10# capacity).

Again - this is all theory.

I dove with Eclipse wing 30 lbs with SS back plate & aluminum STA. I wore 3 mm wet suit with 2 lbs lead weight, I was a little negative in the beginning of the dive but it was ok, infact I prefer to have some ditchable weight for safety margin. I'm thinking of getting an aluminum plate and then add Halcyon ACB as ditchable weight. Anyone has experience using ACB? let me know what its like.

 

[mer]

Ditchable weight: when diving a single, and especially with a thin wetsuit, you really don't need ditchable weight.

What are you trying to accomplish with ditchable weight: manage a wing failure. If you are weighted *properly* (neutral at 10' with nearly empty tank), then the most negative you would be is at the beginning of the dive (4-6# of gas) plus the crush of your wetsuit. Most people can swim up 10-15 lbs from depth, but this is something we should all have tried in a controlled environment.

As for weight pocket systems, since this is the DIR forum, please consult with your instructor before going with a pocket system. I have not heard a really strong sentiment one way or the other about pockets and DIR; however, you'll find the general consensus is that the ABC pockets are a little over-the-top from a pruebread DIR standpoint.

Things you want to think about when choosing a weight system/belt/pocket:
- Does not increase entanglement risk (more than say, a weight belt -- fastex clips are evil)
- Holds weight securely (accidential ditching very bad)
- Is as simple as it can be
- Ditchablity is not a concern if weighted properly (although doubles with a wetsuit is a potential debate point)

DIR is all about knowing why you're doing what you're doing.

That being said, I do use one XS scuba pocket on my harness on the left between my plate and the hip d-ring. I also use an extra metal weight keeper to keep the pocket from sliding forward and messing with the d-ring. This holds five pounds and I tend to use it on salt water dives, and not on freshwater dives. I went this way cause I need a little more weight now that can lights are no longer massively negative missle silos, and my small frame limits the real estate where I can wear a belt. It doesn't seem to produce a greater entanglement risk than a belt, and I've made it through fundies and triox without too much compliant. However, I really should be removing it when I'm not using it (freshwater), but I'll admit that I don't.

 

[srbsep]

Ditchable weight: when diving a single, and especially with a thin wetsuit, you really don't need ditchable weight.

Interesting. Is this your personal belief or something your instructor told you? Most people I have asked, including GUE instructors, insist that you should always have ditchable weight.

That being said, I do use one XS scuba pocket on my harness on the left between my plate and the hip d-ring.

I'm assuming you do this with a light on to distribute your weight equally...otherwise wouldnt this mess up your trim?

 

[mer]

Interesting. Is this your personal belief or something your instructor told you? Most people I have asked, including GUE instructors, insist that you should always have ditchable weight.

Always listen to what your instructor is telling you (or ask him/her about it), but up here, I have never heard my GUE instructor advising someone to pull weight off something to create ditchable weight. He doesn't dive with ditchable weight, and many on our team do not either. (but also we really don't dive doubles wet)

Let's look at the why: single tank... can you swim up 10-15 lbs? Most people can easily, if you can't then maybe you need some ditchable. Just don't make it accidentially ditchable!

I'm assuming you do this with a light on to distribute your weight equally...otherwise wouldnt this mess up your trim?

Short answer: no. I'll often dive with 5# on the left, 2# light on the right; or in the Carribean, just that 5# on the left if I decided to leave the light off for a dive.

Common misconception. When we get into DIR technical diving, all stages and deco bottles go on the left side. You won't see people putting weight on the right to counterbalance. With the shape of our wings, it will self center, and is especially sweet with the doubles wings and you can shift some gas from one side to the other and it will stay there. I use this to hang sideways in the water for some good photo angles.

Here's the why: you're placing stages and this additional weight rather close to your center of gravity, so it's tipping effect is reduced to such that it is easily made up for by distribution of gas in the wing. If you got farther away from the CoG, like on tank band pockets, distributing the weight might become more important, but still 1 or 2 pounds shouldn't effect your trim.

 

[jonnythan]

Interesting. Is this your personal belief or something your instructor told you? Most people I have asked, including GUE instructors, insist that you should always have ditchable weight.

There's really not often a lot of reason to have ditchable weight unless you're wearing a thick wetsuit.. at that point I'm kinda fuzzy on what's DIR for weight dumping or what's not, but I don't dive in a thick wetsuit so I'm not too worried about it.

When diving a thin wetsuit, the *most* negative that you're going to be is the weight of the gas in your tank plus the buoyancy lost due to compression of the wetsuit. Diving, say, an HP100 and a 3mm jumpsuit, this is only going to be about 10 pounds or less at the beginning of the dive, which is relatively easy to swim up in the event of a total buoyancy failure.

IMO, if your rig *requires* ditchable weight in order to have a chance of surviving, you should take a good long look at your rig and figure out why and how to correct that. Often this will mean getting a drysuit.

 

[Grajan]

I've been thinking about just going for a steel plate instead of ditchable weight but it is not the 'safety' issue that stops me, as I agree with your analysis below. What bothers me is the lack of trim flexibility. I like to be able to move a few pounds around to trim out lights or adjust my pitch and this would give me no options.

I am also concerned that, with the BC normally being nearly empty, I would have my additional weight above my center of bouyancy. This is likely to make me slightly roll unstable - if you roll at all there will be a tendency for it to continue. I do photography and really like to be able to 'hang' in the water on breath control - rolling on my back is not going to improve my compositions.....

Also the weight I need is going down steadily and this move would lock me in to 6# - probably too much.

There's really not often a lot of reason to have ditchable weight unless you're wearing a thick wetsuit.. at that point I'm kinda fuzzy on what's DIR for weight dumping or what's not, but I don't dive in a thick wetsuit so I'm not too worried about it.

When diving a thin wetsuit, the *most* negative that you're going to be is the weight of the gas in your tank plus the buoyancy lost due to compression of the wetsuit. Diving, say, an HP100 and a 3mm jumpsuit, this is only going to be about 10 pounds or less at the beginning of the dive, which is relatively easy to swim up in the event of a total buoyancy failure.

 

[jonnythan]

I've been thinking about just going for a steel plate instead of ditchable weight but it is not the 'safety' issue that stops me, as I agree with your analysis below. What bothers me is the lack of trim flexibility. I like to be able to move a few pounds around to trim out lights or adjust my pitch and this would give me no options.

I am also concerned that, with the BC normally being nearly empty, I would have my additional weight above my center of bouyancy. This is likely to make me slightly roll unstable - if you roll at all there will be a tendency for it to continue. I do photography and really like to be able to 'hang' in the water on breath control - rolling on my back is not going to improve my compositions.....

Also the weight I need is going down steadily and this move would lock me in to 6# - probably too much.

In my experience it doesn't matter as much as you think it will. Drop a 6 pound plate right on your back vs a regular BC and the difference in stability is just insane.

My suggestion is to get the steel plate, wear a weight belt for the time being, and go diving. You can adjust your trim very effectively by moving your tank slightly and fine tune it perfectly by just holding your feet a little differently. You should be able to dial it in without tossing weight pouches everywhere.