Stage and pony bottle regulator question

[g1138]

If fresh water got in my first stage a few times do they need to be rebuilt?

It depends on the water quality of the freshwater. There could be certain levels of nutrients enough of which can lead to bacteria growth, mold, or corrosion.
Safe practice would be to take apart, rinse, dry out, and reassemble at the very least.
Tap water will do, but distilled or De-Ionized water is best. Tap water has a lot of minerals dissolved in that can create hard water spots if not dried properly.

I'm working towards a career as an aquarist. I unfortunately know exactly what can be in clear clean looking freshwater. It's a bit more frightening in a confined turtle tank than out there though.

 

[DaleC]

Decide whether it is a stage/deco or pony bottle first. Tech philosophy does not always transition to rec diving.

A stage/deco bottle is not meant to be a "go to" air source in an OOA situation. It is meant for pre-planned routine gas switches so the valve can be turned off (there is no stress attached to the transition). In fact, the switch is very controlled and even involves reading the contents of the bottle, tracing the reg hose etc...

A pony bottle is meant to be an emergency air source for people who have an unplanned need for gas. In that case they/you may expect it to be working now. If you advertise your pony as an alternate air source it should be able to be breathed immediately, not after an intermediate step. Stress can also trigger irrational panic and even a diver who owns a pony can screw up if it doesn't work when he/she needs it. If it is a yoked reg, it is also possible to remove the first stage instead of turning on the air. That's a neat fix to do while holding your breath!

If it's just you, do what you want, but in the last month I have interceded in two adverse events surrounding ponies.

One, where a hose could not be deployed because of the way it was stowed. A long hose doubled up that caught around its own tail in the bungies.

The other, carried on the hip, could not even be accessed by the diver because of the silly velcro neck retaining strap system it had(some thing you undid and then unzipped to deploy the bottle from a bag so you could breath it like a spare air). The diver could not undo the velcro.

Both these were on training dives, but the second diver admitted that, if it had been for real, he would have be dead.

As for ponies draining themselves. Next dive purge your pony while diving and see how long and loud it takes to empty. This speaks of course, to where you mount it and how you monitor its contents. Mine is in my left armpit and the bubbles are quite easy to see.

 

[lowviz]

...//... done ~ every 5 minutes during the dive, as well as at every "highlight" in the dive: before descending, and the end of the descent etc. etc.

Maybe look into the whole idea of waypoints? Planned times to get your head together and focus on the "here and now". Differs greatly with depth. Charging my pony every 5min at 30' would drive me insane...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you get water into the first stage it will also eventually work it's way into the spg. Ruining it. The way I was taught and teach now myself with new users of pony bottles is to charge it before you go in. Then depending on how you carry it and the type of reg to shut it off. Charge it again, just crack the valve open, at your bubble/buoyancy check stop, once more when you reach dive depth, then at the turn point, and again at the ascent line where you will then leave it on. There are is an extra step in this over what I was taught but then I actually learned during an intro to tech class. I added the step to build muscle memory as much as anything.
The problem is many go out and buy a bottle with no idea as to how to use it as few classes before tech training teach you how to use one. It's why I added it to my Advanced level.classes. Too many people carrying them improperly, hoses routed wrong, poor choice of regs, and ruining regs by flooding them. As well as not using them and when it comes time they fumble around and could kill somebody or themselves. A pony should be deployed every dive day at least once and breathed from for a portion of a dive. Otherwose better to not have it.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SeaCobra]

For a pony bottle, I turn it on and leave it on. Have a pressure gauge that can be monitored during the dive and check it frequently. Also, ponies should be accessible and valve reachable during the dive to handle those little nuisances like a freeflow.

Stages and deco tanks I "park" - charge the reg, make sure all is good and then shut down the valve leaving the reg pressurized. Again, checking the pressure gauge during the dive and then adding gas to the reg, handling nuisances or adjusting dive plan if needed.

 

[gekodivebali]

Keep it on, don't add extra steps in cases of OOA emergency! If no buddy assists you, you only have a few seconds before drowning...
As for servicing the reg following water ingress: yes definitely and immediately. Water will do damage if the reg isn't opened and dried.

 

[Crass3000]

Thanks for all the great information. I typically dive solo and the 2nd reg of the pony is only a half a foot from my face. The valve on the cylinder is easy to get at. I'm going to have a Dive-rite cold water kit installed when I get it oxygen cleaned soon so that should take care of the water inside the first stage. Won't be doing that again. Looking through the service manuals things look pretty easy to work on but for oxygen clean I know I need the shops to be happy with it so I might as well have them do it.

 

[saudio]

Decide whether it is a stage/deco or pony bottle first. Tech philosophy does not always transition to rec diving.

A stage/deco bottle is not meant to be a "go to" air source in an OOA situation. It is meant for pre-planned routine gas switches so the valve can be turned off (there is no stress attached to the transition). In fact, the switch is very controlled and even involves reading the contents of the bottle, tracing the reg hose etc...

A pony bottle is meant to be an emergency air source for people who have an unplanned need for gas. In that case they/you may expect it to be working now. If you advertise your pony as an alternate air source it should be able to be breathed immediately, not after an intermediate step. Stress can also trigger irrational panic and even a diver who owns a pony can screw up if it doesn't work when he/she needs it. If it is a yoked reg, it is also possible to remove the first stage instead of turning on the air. That's a neat fix to do while holding your breath!

If it's just you, do what you want, but in the last month I have interceded in two adverse events surrounding ponies.

One, where a hose could not be deployed because of the way it was stowed. A long hose doubled up that caught around its own tail in the bungies.

The other, carried on the hip, could not even be accessed by the diver because of the silly velcro neck retaining strap system it had(some thing you undid and then unzipped to deploy the bottle from a bag so you could breath it like a spare air). The diver could not undo the velcro.

Both these were on training dives, but the second diver admitted that, if it had been for real, he would have be dead.

As for ponies draining themselves. Next dive purge your pony while diving and see how long and loud it takes to empty. This speaks of course, to where you mount it and how you monitor its contents. Mine is in my left armpit and the bubbles are quite easy to see.

View attachment 161665

Agree. One reason, among others, for having a pony bottle is to be able to start breathing an alternate air source with the fewest numbers of steps between an OOA emergency and breathing again. If you are carrying a pony tank with the valve closed you are adding at least three steps to the process of breathing in an emergency. 1. realizing you need to open the valve. 2. Find the valve. 3. Open the valve.

Easy steps, sure, but everything is easy when you are on the surface. When you are alone, and 80 feet under water, and have no air to breathe, simple things get harder.

I dive with my pony tank back mounted, regulator bungied around my neck, with the valve turned on. If I need emergency air, I move the reg three inches to my mouth and breathe. And that's all.

Yes, there is the possibility that my tank has emptied and I didn't notice it happen. I personally believe that the odds of that happening are much lower than my fumbling with the valve in an emergency.

YMMV.

 

[HenrikBP]

That is the part that I kept forgetting. Will try to improve.

It's pretty "key" to know rather than "think" you know what your available resources are

Decide whether it is a stage/deco or pony bottle first.

Thanks Dale. You make some very good points.

Maybe look into the whole idea of waypoints? Planned times to get your head together and focus on the "here and now". Differs greatly with depth. Charging my pony every 5min at 30' would drive me insane...

I don't dive with a bottle as pony. Always either as a stage or deco bottle as part of a gas plan. And I guess what I called "highlights" is what you call "Waypoints" - a much more precise and descriptive term

Oh, I don't just "charge" my bottle(s) every 5 minutes. I do a complete flow check. Back gas valve(s) right to left, down to stage/deco bottle(s) check pressure open and close valve(s), check suit inflator bottle valve, check "main" SPG. It takes mere seconds, and at this point requires minimum effort and attention. The big advantage: I never wonder about the status of my available resources. I agree that the absolute "need" depends on the dive, but I was taught to "practice like I play", and like to stay in the habit.

 

[DevonDiver]

The 'tech' approach, with deco cylinders, is to pressurize the cylinder and then turn it off. This is designed to prevent loss of critical deco gas, whilst also providing a defense against accidentally breathing that gas below its maximum operating depth. Technical divers in training receive ample instruction and practice on the procedures to identify, turn-on and access those cylinders. A properly competent technical diver should have a high-level of fluidity with valve manipulation and should also be expected to remain calm and controlled during brief periods of air depletion.

In contrast, a 'pony' regulator functions as an emergency air source. A recreational diver should not be assumed to have a high-level of fluidity with valve manipulation and should also not be assumed to remain calm and controlled during periods of air depletion (accident statistics reinforce against such assumptions). For those reasons, it may be prudent to leave the pony cylinder fully-on throughout the dive - providing immediate and unrestricted access should it become necessary.

Technical divers who use 'pony' cylinders on recreational dives might opt to operate them as per deco cylinders. However, they will be well rehearsed in the swift actions needed to access a pressurized/shut-off cylinder and should be confident to remain calm during that process. In this case, the benefit is derived from following a consistent protocol across all manner of dives (tec/rec) and the ingrained muscle memory response that they have achieved.