Standards deficiencies

[Lead_carrier]

raybo once bubbled...
To a certain extent.


This is at the core of the issue~ not enough time. If you're not committed enough to understand what you're doing, you shouldn't be diving.

I just think a little more in depth exposure to the subject material earlier would tend to impress upon people to take diving a little more seriously than most I see do. Even at the "recreational" level.

.

Personally, I think a lot of us wish we had more time in OW classes. Unfortunately, people do not seem to be willing to take the extra time to learn more than they are required. After my classes in which I teach the "required skills" I offer anyone an extra week of classroom and/or pool time at no extra cost. So far I haven't been taken up on it, until after the certificatioin dives. There most everyone seems to be loaded with questions. I think at this point most realize it is a lot more involved than just breathing and clearing a mask. Yes, I wish I had more required time but until students are willing to invest it I am stuck teaching requirements and what little extra that I can throw in.

 

[raybo]

lead_carier once bubbled...

Personally, I think a lot of us wish we had more time in OW classes. Unfortunately, people do not seem to be willing to take the extra time to learn more than they are required. After my classes in which I teach the "required skills" I offer anyone an extra week of classroom and/or pool time at no extra cost. So far I haven't been taken up on it, until after the certificatioin dives. There most everyone seems to be loaded with questions. I think at this point most realize it is a lot more involved than just breathing and clearing a mask. Yes, I wish I had more required time but until students are willing to invest it I am stuck teaching requirements and what little extra that I can throw in.

I understand it's not an easy situation to address. I really do see both sides of the issue. My wife & daughter have been trained under the current standards. I've shown them some of what they weren't taught. Neither of them wanted any part of it~ too much work they said. But at least they understand that it's a lot more complex activity than they were shown in their classes, and have at least a little more respect for it, and don't ever push it.

I guess that may be my point. If people are at least made aware of the complexities, not necessarily that they master them, maybe there would be alittle more respect for the activity.

As it is, and it's manifest in posts thoughout the board, too many people think that once they get that card, they're ready to take on the (underwater) world.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Anybody teaching or being tought buddy skills in OW? If so, How?

I insist my students remain together in buddy teams during ascents and descents. I have a few nasty tricks if they don't. If one drops before the other I may have the slower of the pair halt the descent (staying with a DM) while I drop down and ask the other where their buddy is. I think it gets them thinking. I have them do their final OW training dive as buddy teams. They plan and execute the dive. I tag along and watch. If they need much help from me, we do it again. Keep in mind they are one dive away from getting a card that says they are capable of this. If it looks like one diver isn't paying attention I might ask one diver to stop to see if the buddy will notice or if they will swim off and leave the other. If they get too far apart I may signal to one that they are out of air. I don't ask anything of them that's advanced, dangerous or hard but I need to see them dive not just follow me. If you think this is a needless excersize, let me tell you this is when I often decide a diver needs more time with me. Some of the situations that come up are interesting, like when they turn to me and show me their presure gauge.

After about half an hour in shallow water most people could go out and follow me around and IMO that proves NOTHING. I think they call it a resort course or if it's PADI it's the "Discover Scuba Diving" program. Many OW classes don't produce a diver that's any more capable IMO.

 

[mddolson]

Rick asked: "Can we say you'd like to see more emphasis on buoyancy and trim, then?
Rick (adding yet another vote to #1)"

YES


Mike

 

[raybo]

Mike Ferrara once bubbled...

After about half an hour in shallow water most people could go out and follow me around and IMO that proves NOTHING. I think they call it a resort course or if it's PADI it's the "Discover Scuba Diving" program. Many OW classes don't produce a diver that's any more capable IMO.

Should there be another level of certification that restricts people to only diving with a DM/Instructor? Like a learners permit or provisional driving license. That's what an overwhelming majority of "recreational" divers do on vacation anyway. It's really all they want to do.

Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms, doesnt it?

 

[mddolson]

Mike Ferrara asked:Anybody teaching buddy skills in OW? If so, How?

I do, I'm a bit of a control freak.
I have a simple rule, it starts during swimming skills, buddy up,
and always be in arms reach of your buddy. If you can't reach out and touch your buddy , you're too far away.

It's a neccessity, we dive in black stained (tea coloured)waters.
Buddies out of arms reach do laps during pool sessions.
In open water the don't get certified. ( I test them by stopping one buddy and watching the other). If they cannot maintain contact they fail for improper use of the buddy system

Mike D

 

[Jarhead]

raybo once bubbled...



Should there be another level of certification that restricts people to only diving with a DM/Instructor? Like a learners permit or provisional driving license. That's what an overwhelming majority of "recreational" divers do on vacation anyway. It's really all they want to do.

Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms, doesnt it?

They don't get a c-card and have to repeat the class until they can show skill and academic profiency (spelling) or they give up.

When an instructor issues a c-card, he/she is stating that the person named on that card has met the minimum academic and skill profiency standards for the agency that he/she represents.

Anything less and they are being dishonest with both the student and the certifing agency.

Jarhead

 

[MikeFerrara]

raybo once bubbled...



Should there be another level of certification that restricts people to only diving with a DM/Instructor? Like a learners permit or provisional driving license. That's what an overwhelming majority of "recreational" divers do on vacation anyway. It's really all they want to do.

Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms, doesnt it?

Actually in the PADI system there is, it's called a "Scuba Diver". It's a pre-entrylevel cert that qualifies one to dive only under supervission. The class consists of the first three (out of five) pool lessons and the first two (out of four) OW dives.

We didn't use to market this class but I have since changed my thinking. For those that insist on fast and cheap it allows me to offer something without bothering my conscience about sending them off alone.

 

[raybo]

MikeFerarra once bubbled...

Actually in the PADI system there is, it's called a "Scuba Diver". It's a pre-entrylevel cert that qualifies one to dive only under supervission. The class consists of the first three (out of five) pool lessons and the first two (out of four) OW dives.

This would seem to me to be a viable way to split into two distinct types of divers were PADI to market this and dive operation, especially those in "resort" areas, wiling to accept the (additional over what they already do?) responsibiliity.

This arrangement would seem to facilitate the ability to get "vacation" divers involved at a level most of them already dive at, and allow a more indepth course to be achieved as an OW system.

I envision it now. Scubutopia!

 

[Diver0001]

raybo once bubbled...



Should there be another level of certification that restricts people to only diving with a DM/Instructor? Like a learners permit or provisional driving license. That's what an overwhelming majority of "recreational" divers do on vacation anyway. It's really all they want to do.

Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms, doesnt it?

This already exists. PADI calls it "scuba diver", not to be confused with "open water diver".

<edit: oops, I see the others covered this already. never mind>

R..