Charlie99
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As to the original topic, the answer it pretty easy. We all have our places in paradise already, so let's shut the door and not let anybody else in. 
Stop the Development Mentality
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mrjimboalaska
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S and D,
I think you missed the show.....
I think you missed the show.....
Well either way, I enjoyed reading this thread. It's 13 minutes of my life I will never get back
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Howard,
I read your summary. problem is, you selectively left out what my comment was in response to. I don't feel like going on about it because it just drags the poor OP around for no reason.....
I will be really careful about your threads in the future.
You seem oblivious to the "heritage blathering" issue. I explained that one reason the Hawaiian tradition/ culture issue was relevant here was that the solution to the problems, sometimes, involve knowing your target. Is it a big developer from X country? Is the gill net being set by traditional local fishermen?
If you choose to ignore these points, then, I cannot really clarify why we sometimes talk heritage in relation to environmental issues.
Hawaii, from my experience, requires some extra effort as many different cultures coexist and must problem solve together. Totally avoiding any discussion really limits what we can accomplish here, in our dive community as ocean advocates. But...as you like.
I read your summary. problem is, you selectively left out what my comment was in response to. I don't feel like going on about it because it just drags the poor OP around for no reason.....
I will be really careful about your threads in the future.
You seem oblivious to the "heritage blathering" issue. I explained that one reason the Hawaiian tradition/ culture issue was relevant here was that the solution to the problems, sometimes, involve knowing your target. Is it a big developer from X country? Is the gill net being set by traditional local fishermen?
If you choose to ignore these points, then, I cannot really clarify why we sometimes talk heritage in relation to environmental issues.
Hawaii, from my experience, requires some extra effort as many different cultures coexist and must problem solve together. Totally avoiding any discussion really limits what we can accomplish here, in our dive community as ocean advocates. But...as you like.
OP
Mark; I hope you will reconsider your threat not to post on this thread, just help us keep on topic by ignoring the disfunctional aspects of the Hawaii Ohana.
Wildcard; once again and hopefully finally, my origional post did not contain a political slam. In my way I was commending W for actually getting something done in the fight to save the Oceans.
Catherine; it was not an inocent remark, it was a call to action. Our leader accomplished something, what have we accomplished?
Charlie; Our electricity is predominantly fuel oil generated, seawater is intruding on many island aquifers, landfills are filling up and seeping toxins, trafic is so bad It's easier for me to go to Oahu than Lahina and more tourists are saying "xxxx's not that special" (pick your island). We have finite resourses and it would be logical to have a finite limit on housing and vehicles, both residential and for visitors.
That said, I did not ask anyone to help me stop housing construction, I am looking for help stopping the Developement Mentalitity. Changing the Renaissance to a St. Regis puts a lot more money into both Starwood and Maui Counties pockets (annual property taxes and more). It seems the parties involved looked mostly at the upcoming profits and said "why not"? I am proposing that we answer that question for them.
IMHO, Oahu's future as a viable tourist destination may depend on the charm and beauty of the outer Islands, so I commend the Oahu members for their forsight and support. Some on the other islands have been calling Maui little Waikiki for a while (more lately). Members from those islands are also welcome to help us slow the jugernaut before it turns it's full attention on you.
On Oahu we can see to the obvious damage done to the reefs by overpopulation and overdevelopement, and it doesn't seem to end. Turtle Bay on the North Shore is another, bigger battle over similar issues and I will be involved. The last battle on the North Shore was the Shark's Cove shopping center, which was evidently successfully stopped!
I procrastinated on this project because I did not believe the permitting department would allow demolition to begin less than half way through rainy season. I now know even better that inteligence and understanding are not required for planning and permitting positions. The urgency here will require more time and energy than a poor full time dive guide trying to survive on Maui has. Anybody on good terms with a bored billionair?
With regard to the distracting political debate, my informal study of benevolent acts by the very powerful indicates that many times it's a smoke screen, passifier or PR move. If Ulua Reef is saved it just might be worth it.
Wildcard; once again and hopefully finally, my origional post did not contain a political slam. In my way I was commending W for actually getting something done in the fight to save the Oceans.
Catherine; it was not an inocent remark, it was a call to action. Our leader accomplished something, what have we accomplished?
Charlie; Our electricity is predominantly fuel oil generated, seawater is intruding on many island aquifers, landfills are filling up and seeping toxins, trafic is so bad It's easier for me to go to Oahu than Lahina and more tourists are saying "xxxx's not that special" (pick your island). We have finite resourses and it would be logical to have a finite limit on housing and vehicles, both residential and for visitors.
That said, I did not ask anyone to help me stop housing construction, I am looking for help stopping the Developement Mentalitity. Changing the Renaissance to a St. Regis puts a lot more money into both Starwood and Maui Counties pockets (annual property taxes and more). It seems the parties involved looked mostly at the upcoming profits and said "why not"? I am proposing that we answer that question for them.
IMHO, Oahu's future as a viable tourist destination may depend on the charm and beauty of the outer Islands, so I commend the Oahu members for their forsight and support. Some on the other islands have been calling Maui little Waikiki for a while (more lately). Members from those islands are also welcome to help us slow the jugernaut before it turns it's full attention on you.
On Oahu we can see to the obvious damage done to the reefs by overpopulation and overdevelopement, and it doesn't seem to end. Turtle Bay on the North Shore is another, bigger battle over similar issues and I will be involved. The last battle on the North Shore was the Shark's Cove shopping center, which was evidently successfully stopped!
I procrastinated on this project because I did not believe the permitting department would allow demolition to begin less than half way through rainy season. I now know even better that inteligence and understanding are not required for planning and permitting positions. The urgency here will require more time and energy than a poor full time dive guide trying to survive on Maui has. Anybody on good terms with a bored billionair?
With regard to the distracting political debate, my informal study of benevolent acts by the very powerful indicates that many times it's a smoke screen, passifier or PR move. If Ulua Reef is saved it just might be worth it.
Charlie99
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Please explain why putting money into both Starwood and Maui County pockets is bad. Seriously. A lot of people seem to think "profit" is a dirty word. You seem to think that "profit", in and of itself is bad.halemano:
Will there be more or fewer people and vehicles on island if the many rooms of the Renaissance are replaced with a St.Regis?halemano:
So you think that it CAN be remodeled without damaging the reef. IMO, that's a good, reasonable goal that we should make happen.halemano (original post/letter):
What makes a Cousteau Resort better? Is it PR or reality? If in reality the Cousteau Resorts are better, how can we get the many other resorts on Maui to adopt some of these attitudes/methods/etc.?halemano (original post/letter:
Actions mean more than words, no matter how passionate those words are.
Charlie Allen
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uh...do you know that story?
My understanding is that the process did not stop it.
Anyway, I meant that your comment about GW was not that bad....I could take it, just wanted to respond a bit.
See, your kid is bad at math. He brings home an A. You should not say "well, son, even a stopped clock is right twice a day"...that was my point really, not constructive. Both parties have to focus on the ball for this effort to protect the Hawaiian reefs. Trying to look better than the other side is counter-productive.
Call to action.... people need specifics. I would like for our Ohana environmental efforts to result in some managable steps. Mr X does some great work because he researches the addresses and provides links, letters, etc.
I am interested in going to the gill net meetings.
You should get Reefcheck involved over there to do a PRE development reef survey assessment, IMO. This baseline data is what the politicians who support your cause like because it gives them a tangible tool.--and ammo.
Also...Gov. Lingle's office is pretty receptive. I think she is responsible for the marine preserve to a big extent.
well, Bill Mills is not exactly bored...but he is a major developer and sits on the Nature Conservancy Board, as well as HECO. Contact his office and maybe get some advice?
us?
Shaka Doug
Contributor
Hey Steve, have you thought of going to the hotel employees meetings and letting them know what you expect will happen to the reef at Ulua? I know many of them will be out of work for a while, but don't you think many will try to get jobs at the new place when it opens? How about contacting HIRSA (Hawaiian Island Recreational Scua Association) and enlisting some support from them? You might have luck with the Wailea Community Association too. Contact Liz Foote here on Maui and let her know what is happening. She conducts regular reef surveys and fish counts here on Maui and is very environmantaly active. She has lots of contacts too. You could also contact CORAL (CORAL REEF ALLIANCE).
Do you keep a logbook of your diving at Ulua? I do. I can give you examples of visibilty trends for the last 9 years at Ulua. I can also provide samplings of turtle counts and manta and eagle ray sightings for the same period. I also have countless photos and video clips of the area. Someone with a trained eye and knowledge of the area can easily see the changes throughout the years. Although not a complete survey, it does show certain trends and when compared to future trends, we may have evidence of actual damage, destruction and negative impact due to constuction and development along that area of shoreline.
Do you keep a logbook of your diving at Ulua? I do. I can give you examples of visibilty trends for the last 9 years at Ulua. I can also provide samplings of turtle counts and manta and eagle ray sightings for the same period. I also have countless photos and video clips of the area. Someone with a trained eye and knowledge of the area can easily see the changes throughout the years. Although not a complete survey, it does show certain trends and when compared to future trends, we may have evidence of actual damage, destruction and negative impact due to constuction and development along that area of shoreline.
mrjimboalaska
Contributor
halemano:
I believe the only way the Developement is going to slow down will be through the people getting a Slow/No Growth Law on the Ballot. The Politicians get there support
and $$$$ from Business, Government Taxes come from Business(Property Tax rates are real low as compared to other cities).
So, you are right on track that this will be solved by people getting involved in a grass roots effort, who do we write too? Organizing a Citizen Committee?
Jimbo
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