Student drowns in scuba class off Pompano

[Windwalker]

It blows me away to hear of an instructor "loosing" a student. That should never happen.

My Class had eight students. We dove staggered (one group at a time) in two groups of four with one dive master two assistants under water, and one above water. Two student buddy teams, one team on the left of the instructor, one team on the right of the instructor, and one assistant right behind and above each buddy team.

On one of the dives, one of the assistants "Sacrificed" himself to a Lions Mane Jelly Fish.

IMHO that is the way to do things safe. It was communicated in the beginning, should something happen, Buddies surface together, and so does the assistant assigned to the buddy pair. That leaves one assistant and the instructor with the two other students down on the bottom.

If I ever become an instructor, That is how I would prefer to do things.

 

[cornfed]

BIGSAGE136 once bubbled...
6 People. 1 Instructor. 2 swam back back the buoy alone. Afraid
to go further. No assistant. No DM.

There were two students (including myself) in my AOW class with one instructor. During the "deep" dive the other student's reg started to free flow and the instructor took him up. The two of them made a very rapid ascent and left me alone. The instructor never bothered to check on me before ascending. He just rocketed to the surface and left me 95 ft underwater.

There are a lot of bad instructors out there. Unfortunately, you generally don't find out until it's too late.

Cornfed

 

[MikeFerrara]

cornfed once bubbled...


They try to teach common sense in instructor classes? No wonder we hear so many horror stories. Maybe it should be a prerequisite instead.

They want to make common sense a prerequisite but the problem is finding a relyable screening test for it. I hear they have a team of MBA's designing one but they can't get it to work.

 

[cobaltbabe]

cornfed once bubbled...


There were two students (including myself) in my AOW class with one instructor. During the "deep" dive the other student's reg started to free flow and the instructor took him up. The two of them made a very rapid ascent and left me alone. The instructor never bothered to check on me before ascending. He just rocketed to the surface and left me 95 ft underwater.

There are a lot of bad instructors out there. Unfortunately, you generally don't find out until it's too late.

Cornfed

Cornfed, this just floors me. Not only would I report that but once I hit the surface again I would give this instructor what for.

I can't imagine what happened since the details are at best sketchy. I think if we had more accurate details it would all clear up. My thoughts go out to the families of both the lady and the DM.

 

[cornfed]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
They want to make common sense a prerequisite but the problem is finding a relyable screening test for it. I hear they have a team of MBA's designing one but they can't get it to work.

Taking them diving would be a good start. Honestly...

The problem with this country is that it's run by lawyers and businessmen. Ya'll need to step aside and let us engineers straighten this out!

Cornfed

 

[Knavey]

cornfed once bubbled...

Ya'll need to step aside and let us engineers straighten this out!

Cornfed

Most engineers I know couldn't straighten out a wet piece of spaghetti

Better be careful cornfed, you might launch this post into the humor section!

 

[GQMedic]

It was mentioned in the thread about certified training assistants and such. One Instructor said there is no way they would take 6 students out with just the instructor.

I feel compelled to speak up here.

Not all instructors have the benefit of having a DM, AI to assist with OW dives. I'm one of them. In events like this, watch, watch and WATCH your students. It's simple. They don't just do "SEABAG" in predive and in front of me, as they prepare to enter the water, thet get a final "BAG" check. (BC Inflated, Air ON and 1/4 turn back ck, Final looksie at thier gear and GO) I'm not the only one who operates w/o an assistant. Would I welcome one? Certainly. But who wants to work for free? It's not always easy to find "free help". I find many instructors who are essentially SOLO with thier students.

In being an instructor that does not have an assistant, I KNOW where my students are. they enter the water in front of me. They get in waste deep water and get thier fins on, then they are to haul hiney out of the surf zone and wait for ME. I trail behind them at a short distance to make sure all students have safely made thier entry. They are told well ahead of time to stay together. It doesn't require brain surgery. We have a set MIN pressure to end the dive, they not only tell me how much air they have, I don't rely on them to be accurate, I also look at thier gauges. We go down together. If vis is good, it's follow the leader with me looking over my shoulders constantly. If vis is not all that great, they are parallel to me, both right and left sides. I count them constantly in either case. When I take one off for skills, the rest hold eachother's gauge hose or even hold hands. I don't care if this makes them feel silly. No one gets left behind. when I am done testing the given diver, he or she returns to the group. No exceptions.

My students are briefed on all these things. It's a concrete wall with no room for exceptions. It's just how it is.

Post dive, they exit in front of me, I trail behind as no student gets left behind. They are briefed on exit proceedures and where to return to. I leave nothing to chance.

So, the assistant comments while they sound good and look good on print, arn't always possible. An instructor should know this, be prepared for teaching in these kinds of conditions.

What I don't understand is how an instructor with ONE student could screw the pooch so badly, resulting in the death of a student. It just staggers the mind.

 

[The Chairman]

NAUI standards allows me to teach 8 students under IDEAL conditions in an OW environment. I must have back up after that. But the standards also make a point of making ME responsible for reducing that number in less than ideal situations.

This was obviously less than ideal conditions. How many could he have handled? 8 or 6 or 4??? Could he have even handled one? I can't pass judgement as I was not there. Unfortunately, the death speaks volumes. But, determing the number of students you can handle for a particular situation is a slippery slope, but one that all instructors must negotiate. This is not something a student is competent to determine for you (you can't depend on them to call the dive for you)... YOU and YOU alone must make the decision on whether the conditions merit the number of students you take. Even if that number is only one.

I would like to note, that I would NEVER take a non-certified diver (ie a BOW student) through surf. Ever! It's hard enough on those who are already certified. I limittheir initial dives to ideal or real close to ideal conditions. I save those more demanding dives for AOW or possibly even later.

I would also like to point out that taking a group of 8 out under even ideal conditions is a lot like herding kittens. If you are not up to it, then you best reduce the number. Class handling is a skill that not enough instructors excell in. 4 is my favorite number. I just love class sizes of four. But this is Florida, and the ocean is close, and I will call a dive if the conditions do not favor students. This is whether the class is 8 or just 1. There is nothing so pressing that it merits risking someone's life. I can always drive back out.

BTW, my heart and prayers goes out to the family and friends of the deceased.

 

[nyresq]

10 ' vis??!?! the article said the firefighter found her in 10'... sooooooo why couldn't the instructor find her? was the instructor 100' away when she went under? There is more then we know here. Fire fighter find her right away from just a description by the now frantic instructor, but when the instructor was out in the water with her, she can't be found... in 10' of water... no excuse, there is more to the story, there has to be.
I learned to dive in the water here in NY. My instructor or DM was never more than 10 feet from me on the surface and for most of my dives was half that distance while underwater. Bad vis is not an excuse for that instructor. If it was "bad" then they should never have been there in the first place, especially with a 60 year old student.
Incidently 10'- 15' vis is normal here in the NE. 30' is a BS lie that guys tell each other in the LDS the next day... "yea, we had like 30 or 40 foot vis on the San Diego yesterday!! you should have been there bro".
There are many times in the NE atlantic where a wreck is found by running into it with your hand out infront of you.

If any of you florida people can find the real story please post on here when more info comes to light. I'd be interested to see what really happened. I feel bad for the instructor, he has to live with it, but at least he gets to live.....

 

[ScottyK]

nyresq once bubbled...
Incidently 10'- 15' vis is normal here in the NE. 30' is a BS lie that guys tell each other in the LDS the next day... "yea, we had like 30 or 40 foot vis on the San Diego yesterday!! you should have been there bro"

Had 10' vis at the Ponquoge Bridge yesterday, and it felt like the Caribbean

That was the best I've had so far this year, including some boat dives. To much wind and rain this year.

This weekend should be great though. We'll be at Secret Beach for a night dive tomorrow.