Take the Nitrox Anti-Fatigue Challenge and post your results here

[tridacna]

Idocsteve,

Ignore those skeptical naysayers. You have an excellent thesis. There is a major journal who will be delighted to publish your results. I've seen similar studies in the journal. In fact, they specialize in the kind of research that you are proposing.

The Journal of Irreproducible Results

 

[idocsteve]

FWIW it appears a double blind study has already been done and published: Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/3975Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/3975


And they found no difference.

Wow, nice work!

I guess there's no point in my "semi controlled" admittedly somewhat flawed study when a much more comprehensive experiment has been done and no difference was found in post dive fatigue with Nitrox vs Air.

As per the study:

"In summary, diving to 18m while breathing air produced no measurable difference in fatigue, attention levels, ability to concentrate or DHS scores, compared with EANx 36% in this study"

 

[scubaflier]

Experiment
The clean up at Weeki Wachee Springs lasted 3 months
5 divers working 6-8 hours between 8 - 20 foot depths
I supplied all the air for the dives
5 days a week the fisrt week we used all air
because I had a two hour commute and had to fill 20-30 tanks a night
The second week I started using nitrox. I used all my nitrox tanks for the project because I used most of my air tanks during the week for rental and students at the dive shop and no one was taking nitrox in the pool.
the first week while I was filling tanks at 9:00 pm I was very drousy. My day started at 5:00 am and was not complete untill I had filled and loaded all the tanks for the next day.
the second week I was able to fill tanks load them go home and watch tv for a while.
The following weeks I had arranged my schedule to where I was up at 4:30 am walking the dogs leaving for work at 5:00 am diving all day filling and loading tanks and ont going to sleep untill after king of the hill at 12:30 am And was able to teach weekend open water classes.

The other divers asked for nitrox as well. So during the second week we all dove with 32-35% nitrox
no one was taking a nap at lunch and they wanted to hang out and chat at the end of the Day
the third week I started doing some experiments.
since all the tanks were nitrox tanks and no one analized them but me I left them labeled with 32-35% for the entire project.

Divers- 3 active Instructors 1- commercial 1 - dive master and former performer at ww
Ages 23-45
since I was the only one aware of what was going on I never asked any questions as to give away my experiment.

I conducted the survey over a period of 8 weeks

WEEK # 2 every one use 32- 35% all day every day for the week.
production was up and every one showed up on time and they were in good spirits at the end of each day.

WEEK #3 Nitrox was used on mon/wed/fri. air on tue/thu

two divers complained of headaches on tue at the end of the day
one diver did not show up on friday (excuse was not feeling well)

WEEk #4 Nitrox was used on tue/th only
production was down considerable compared to the prievious weeks and additudes were up.

Two different divers complained of exhaustion and headaches on wed. 1 dive missed work on thur

WEEK # 5 Nitrox was used on Mon/wed/fri air on tue/ thur

Production was back up by the end of the day on wed. All the divers said they felt better that week. no headaches every one was on time.

Week # 6 nitrox was used on tue/ thur.
Again production dropped by tue and was still lagging on fri
Divers were taking naps during lunch and taking longer breaks

Week# 7 only air was used ( all the tanks were marked with 32-35% nitrox)

2 divers were very late mid week. Tired and headaches were the compliants all week
on thursday all four divers came to me and asked me If i was sure that they were getting nitrox.

WEEK # 8 nitrox was used every day.

Production was higher that it ever was and no one was late. At lunch on friday I shared with them my experiment and the results. most felt that i had recieved very unbiased results. 1 diver swore he knew when he had nitrox and when he didn't. All the divers were glad that i did it and that i didn't tell them untill i was finished.

All the dives were conducted in the same water temp at around the same depths every day
the only variabels was the air tempratures. I had no way to controll that.

I have always felt there was a great benifit to using Nitrox
and the nay sayers will not change my mind
Thats why I am working with those in the medical field right now for more info for the use of the voo doo gas

 

[Thalassamania]

...
Your suggestion that subjective reporting is not reliable is simply not valid. Many scientific experiments are reliant on reports of the test subjects. The idea is to implement proper controls so the subjects interpretation is not skewed by erroneous factors.

In fact the entire debate as to whether or not diving Nitrox results in less post dive fatigue is at present completely dependent on subjective impressions of divers. The idea is to study those "subjective impressions" while isolating (as much as possible) other contributing factors.

I have no problem with subjective reporting, it is a valid statistical technique, as in, "on a scale of one to five how tired do you feel." The problem with you experimental design is the single dive, that's already been tested and EAN has been shown to not reduce fatigue on single dives. I maintain that this is not the case on multi-dive multi-day exposures.

 

[idocsteve]

I maintain that this is not the case on multi-dive multi-day exposures.

You maintain that Nitrox significantly decreases post dive fatigue on multi-dive multi-day exposures as compared to air...based on what?

How you feel or based on the results of a controlled, reliable scientific study?

 

[jmasin]

You maintain that Nitrox significantly decreases post dive fatigue on multi-dive multi-day exposures as compared to air...based on what?

How you feel or based on the results of a controlled, reliable scientific study?

How he feels probably, which is what really matters.

The real question is this - a scientific study has been conducted (linked above) which is great, and it showed no difference. So, logically every diver who reads that, now newly informed, will no longer feel that Nitrox reduces fatigue when they are on trips and diving Nitrox or air, right?

Something tells me that's not true though, because logic is irrelevant when it comes to how we "feel". The scientific study used some measurables to assess fatigue, which is good. But vacationers aren't going to do that, they are going to surface and want a nap or not...

 

[idocsteve]

Experiment

The other divers asked for nitrox as well. So during the second week we all dove with 32-35% nitrox

Production was back up by the end of the day on wed. All the divers said they felt better that week. no headaches every one was on time.

The divers in your "experiment" asked for and received Nitrox. They knew they were breathing Nitrox so there is no control in place whatsoever to compensate for the placebo effect.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you'd bother to read my post you'd find several subjective and several objective measures.

But what we were discussing was your proposed experiment. The problem with your experiment, I maintain, is that no one is proposing that a there is an effect on a single dive. Single dives have already been tested (albeit, dry) and no effect was found. What needs to be tested is multi-dive, multi-day, for which there are strong indicators that an effect will be found.

 

[Schizlor]

I have no problem with subjective reporting, it is a valid statistical technique, as in, "on a scale of one to five how tired do you feel." The problem with you experimental design is the single dive, that's already been tested and EAN has been shown to not reduce fatigue on single dives. I maintain that this is not the case on multi-dive multi-day exposures.

My whole issue is simply that the purpose seemed to be achieving results that one way or the other "proved" that nitrox reduces the fatigue that one might otherwise experience using air. I don't see how any more a divinitive conclusion than "Most divers say they definitely feel less fatigued after repeat dives on nitrox, as opposed to air" can be reached using the subjective feedback of the test subjects. Being that fatigue is a feeling and not a state of being (like shock, which can be scientifically proven) the intent of the study to produce difinitive, undisputable results one way or the other just seems impossible.

Essentially the study, should it "prove" nitrox reduces fatigue, could then be used to tell new divers, "Yes...you WILL feel less fatigued if you use nitrox....it's been scientifically proven". I don't feel the results, should they tend toward that conclusion, would support a difinitive blanket statment like that. The caveat, "YMMV" would still be required.

I do believe in using nitrox to reduce fatigue on multi-dive days or multi-day dive trips, don't get me wrong. I use it partly for that purpose. But the intent of the study to produce a difinitive, "proven" answer to the question just seems impossible given the stated parameters of the experiment. (as you've alluded to here)

 

[Nemrod]

I believe this was done and the result was--no difference.

N