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I've heard (read) this a lot from people online (never in person), but I don't live anywhere near cave country and am not a cave diver. Seems like most of the people that have this experience are in caves, or at least that's my perception. I can see where it could be a lot more likely to get stuff in your 2nd stages while cave diving.

You don't need to do dive caves to get debris in the reg. A simple beach entry and fine sand can get lodged into the reg and cause a free-flow.

It happened to me once and a buddy who pushed the purge while in the wash and a piece of sand got in between the lever preventing a re seat and caused a free-flow.
 
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Many second stages have removable face plates, but you also want to keep the parts count low. The G250/G250V for example, has 1) the cover, 2) a friction ring, and 3) the diaphragm. Other second stages may have a 2 or 3 piece outer cover, and/or a screw in inner cover plus a friction ring and a diaphragm, and at that point you have an elevated risk of losing one while removing the cover under water.

I'm more inclined to remove a cover in a cave than I am in open water. In many caves there is little or no flow and the environment is fairly controlled, even in high flow caves, I can usually find a spot out of the flow, and if I have an issue with a deco reg, there is usually a hard bottom available to mess with the reg. However in open water, there is surge, current, and quite possibly the problem of having to work in mid water and worse, mid water in current while clipped to the up line with a reel or jon line. That reduces the chances of success quite a bit.

I'm not a big fan of the Mk 20/Mk 25 first stage. I used them prior to the Mk 17 but switched when it came out and have never regretted it. Scubapro still markets it as it's flagship first stage, especially in the use (less so in Europe) but it really isn't. The Mk 17 has better hose routing, is far better in cold water and is far less prone to contamination.

Similarly, while I have nothing against the A700, the G250V is a much better second stage for technical diving. Now that they've put a metal air barrel in the S600, it runs a closer second place choice. The trade offs are in 1) a smaller diaphragm that provides a bit less power for the same internals, but fits under your chin better for a back up second stage and 2) greater complexity and more things to fail - which isn't really want you want in a technical reg, especially your back up reg.

So I'd suggest a Mk 17 G250V for both primary and backup regs, or alternatively a C300 for the back up second stage. The C300 is simple, has good performance and is basically bullet proof.

-----

There's lot of Hog love out there, but the problem is you never quite know what you are going to get. Any reg available at that price point is going to suffer from the same problem. Tolerances and QA standards are directly related to cost. Looser tolerances and lower QA standards mean the OEM can sell it to the company for less money. Tighter tolerances and higher QA standards increase the cost to the company and to the consumer. But along with looser tolerances and lower QA standards, comes greater variability, so while a reg like the Mk 17 G250 is very consistent, meaning any Mk 17 G250 will perform like any other Mk 17 G250, the odds of that being the case with a large number of HOg regs is a lot less. You might get lucky and get one on the great side of average or you could get on the bad side of the average. And in terms of individual parts, the same thing applies - you run a higher risk of getting a part in the reg that was not properly finished, de-burred, plated, etc.

Consequently, below a certain price point, you really are getting what you pay for and based on that that, supported by what I've seen come across the repair bench, I avoid bargain priced regs in my personal diving.
 
Out of your list, I would say scuba pro. And if you're planning on any cold water diving, think about upgrading the first to an mk-17.
 
I'll say they just breath well... I routinely take mine to 170' and I've never had a problem with them in 100+ dives. That being said I also maintain all of my gear diligently (your supposed to wash the drysuit underwear when it starts to crawl away on the boat right?), since lack of maintenance is the #1 reason regulators fail.

But if you want to spend twice as much and get the same thing with a different name plate don't let me or common sense stop you :)

They breathe well for the price point. That doesn't meant they breathe as well as the regs he's looking at. It seems nowadays you talk about a reg and somebody always brings up HOG. but there's quite a few of us that bought them and had nothing but issues or think they're junk due to the cheapness of build quality.

My horrible experience were two piston regs from hog that couldn't keep ip pressure from climbing and the plastic cover on the back would shoot off like a bullet nytime they were pressurized. When opened up one of the regs had missing Orings. The other we couldn't see any issue. The Orings were replaced and both regs continued to do it. They were very quickly sent back to the shop they were purchased from and I will avoid anything HOG from now o. There are other people with similar issues. They just keep quiet just like I have because you get persecuted for any bad talk about HOG


---------- Post added March 27th, 2013 at 04:57 PM ----------

I would say look inside the valve and remove the crap stuck in there shredding the o-ring, or more likely tighten the DIN sleeve into the reg again using an allen key.

I saw one HOG reg that would chew up the Oring between the DIN and the body, for whatever reason. Dude replaced 3 orings in 2 days.

Personally, I dont have the time or desire to bother with that kind of stuff, so I stick to what I know works. Buy it nice or buy it twice!

Another thing to consider about the Poseidons is that they require special hoses. Tough to find if you're far from a poseidon dealer.


---------- Post added March 27th, 2013 at 05:02 PM ----------

And oh yeah HOG regs are made in Taiwan along with a number of other much higher priced brands. :)
 
Many second stages have removable face plates, but you also want to keep the parts count low. The G250/G250V for example, has 1) the cover, 2) a friction ring, and 3) the diaphragm. Other second stages may have a 2 or 3 piece outer cover, and/or a screw in inner cover plus a friction ring and a diaphragm, and at that point you have an elevated risk of losing one while removing the cover under water.

I'm more inclined to remove a cover in a cave than I am in open water. In many caves there is little or no flow and the environment is fairly controlled, even in high flow caves, I can usually find a spot out of the flow, and if I have an issue with a deco reg, there is usually a hard bottom available to mess with the reg. However in open water, there is surge, current, and quite possibly the problem of having to work in mid water and worse, mid water in current while clipped to the up line with a reel or jon line. That reduces the chances of success quite a bit.

I'm not a big fan of the Mk 20/Mk 25 first stage. I used them prior to the Mk 17 but switched when it came out and have never regretted it. Scubapro still markets it as it's flagship first stage, especially in the use (less so in Europe) but it really isn't. The Mk 17 has better hose routing, is far better in cold water and is far less prone to contamination.

Similarly, while I have nothing against the A700, the G250V is a much better second stage for technical diving. Now that they've put a metal air barrel in the S600, it runs a closer second place choice. The trade offs are in 1) a smaller diaphragm that provides a bit less power for the same internals, but fits under your chin better for a back up second stage and 2) greater complexity and more things to fail - which isn't really want you want in a technical reg, especially your back up reg.

So I'd suggest a Mk 17 G250V for both primary and backup regs, or alternatively a C300 for the back up second stage. The C300 is simple, has good performance and is basically bullet proof.

-----

There's lot of Hog love out there, but the problem is you never quite know what you are going to get. Any reg available at that price point is going to suffer from the same problem. Tolerances and QA standards are directly related to cost. Looser tolerances and lower QA standards mean the OEM can sell it to the company for less money. Tighter tolerances and higher QA standards increase the cost to the company and to the consumer. But along with looser tolerances and lower QA standards, comes greater variability, so while a reg like the Mk 17 G250 is very consistent, meaning any Mk 17 G250 will perform like any other Mk 17 G250, the odds of that being the case with a large number of HOg regs is a lot less. You might get lucky and get one on the great side of average or you could get on the bad side of the average. And in terms of individual parts, the same thing applies - you run a higher risk of getting a part in the reg that was not properly finished, de-burred, plated, etc.

Consequently, below a certain price point, you really are getting what you pay for and based on that that, supported by what I've seen come across the repair bench, I avoid bargain priced regs in my personal diving.


Your making a few pretty large assumptions there about quality and price. While I will agree that you generally get what you pay for I also realize the returns on performance are not necessarily linked to the final price. I notice there is allot of anecdotal evidence presented here along the lines of:

I was on a dive site and brand x was doing this and that's why I only buy brand y!

I dive HOG because the gear is solidly built, exceptionally backed by warranties, and well priced.

Yes I'm a bacon breather as the OP pointed out, but bacon tastes better then cool aid as far as I'm concerned :wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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