Tech v. cave

[Dive-aholic]

Without intending to start any "wars", we'd like some opinions. We want to pursue both technical diving and cave diving. Which would you recommend we pursue first, and why? We're planning on doing both about the same time, but wanted to know if there would be any advantages to completing one before the other. Or would it even make a difference?

 

[padiscubapro]

Without intending to start any "wars", we'd like some opinions. We want to pursue both technical diving and cave diving. Which would you recommend we pursue first, and why? We're planning on doing both about the same time, but wanted to know if there would be any advantages to completing one before the other. Or would it even make a difference?

first of all cave is a form of tech diving, if you mean learnig to handle decompression and deeper dives, taking tech classes first will make you less stressed in a cave..

I learned alot from my cave class, and wouldn't have progressed like I have without it.. Nowadays there are many more options and if you are going to be diving wrecks a good wreck penetration class (after you master the basics of tech diving) may be a better coarse if action.. If you aren;t going to dive wrecks but caves take a cave class.. Both enviroments present their own challenges, mastering one doesn't necessarily qualify you for the other.

In many ways cave dives can be much easier than your typical deep wreck dives, but at the same time still increase your chances of some type of accident (for the untrained)..'

 

[Spectre]

It depends on your location. If your primary diving will be one vs. the other, you are probably better off going with the option of what you are doing more of.

Although I would say to start, take a cavern class... you may make your decision yourself after getting a taste if cave diving is for you or not.

 

[FreeFloat]

I'm following this thread with interest as I have a similar choice to make. I've had experienced buddies encouraging me to get into wrecks and tech - granted that's what is locally available, and I would be a fool for not training to my local environment. However I have to admit a keen interest in caves as well.

Being of limited budget I will only be able to pursue one type of training at a time with a fair long (wallet-recovery) period of time in between.

I'd also be curious to know the opinions of those divers who may be trained in both disciplines. I understand and acknowlege that cave and tech diving, while they may have a few similarities and overlapping skills, are distinct from each other as forms of divnig. Therefore I'm wondering if there is any advantage to a particular order for the training for a diver who may plan to eventually pursue both.....

 

[chickdiver]

Allow me to qualify my comments by saying that I actively pursue, as well as teach both disciplines (deep wrecks and caves).

I agree with all the Padiscubapro has to say. Instead of looking at "wreck diving" and "cave diving" as seperate disciplines, it is more accurate to view them as two halves of the same coin. Each environment has it's own unique challenges, yet there is a tremendous crossover of knowledge and skill between them. After 10 years of actively participating in both, to the fullest extent possible, I do feel that on the whole deep wreck diving is the more challenging of the two one the whole- primarily because of environmental factors, as well as other factors outside of the diver's control.

All that being said- I do find that the trimix students I have taught with prior cave training (and this holds true for most divers in general) have more precise bouyancy control and better awareness of what is going on within the dive team.

Essentially both types of training are beneficial, and it really doesn't matter where you start!

 

[dagodiver]

CD,
Very Very well put..!!!
I will say after doing some really nice wreck diving over the past couple off years
i cant wait to get back and take my Intro class. My LDS goes to X and i got to X so
now it is time to travel to get some more training. To me cavern was one of the best
classes i have ever taken and i can only think that intro and cave will be that much better.

Mike M.

 

[GDI]

Cave and Wreck are both forms of tech diving. Teaching both I can say that there are some differences and there are some similarities. I also teach Ice (although not since I moved to Florida - Whats up with that?) Quite often I will suggest to a wreck student to take the cavern class. Not to suggest the they get into cave and forget about wrecks but because the fundamentals are able to permit an easier crossover to the other. The caverns can be and usually are much more shallow compared to wrecks. so this allows for more in water skill development in a overhead environment. Then we will complete the final skill sessions on a wreck. In any form of tech diving how the basic fundamental skills are developed is very important. If your area has more wrecks to dive such as the Great Lakes or more caves such as Florida then you should look to head in that direction. When you can pursue the other you will find it will have it's own challenges. However I would be more apt to take a cave diver into a wreck then I would to take a wreck diver into a cave. I was first trained to dive wrecks and then made what I consider a natural progression into cave diving. What ever you do get the correct training first

 

[Dive-aholic]

Thanks for the responses. To clarify a few things, we do realize that cave diving is a form of tech diving; however, there seems to be a distinction between tech deep diving and cave diving. That's what we are referring to in the original posting.

We have dived both wrecks and caverns and want to advance in both areas. We're planning on completing full cave cert and tecdeep/trimix within the next couple of years. We just want to know if taking one before the other would be more beneficial to us, especially in the one we take second.

We are in Arizona. San Diego's wreck alley is about 6 hours away. We also dive the Sea of Cortez (also about 6 hours away), which we've heard has u/w caverns along the coast (we still have to find them, though). We also travel to New Jersey and Florida at least once a year (family both locations), so we have more wrecks and caves to dive.

In response to CD, we do view both disciplines as similar. That's why we posed this question. We would like to know if having the knowledge, training and experience in one will help us with the other. It does appear from the postings that the general concensus is leaning towards cave diving first, then tech deep diving, even though the poll supports tech diving first. If a diver were to take both from you one after the other and left it up to you to decide the order, which would you choose?

Also, what about equipment concerns? Will the same equipment be good for both? And is there and particular type or brand that's recommended for both?

Thanks for the information already provided. Looking forward to more posts!

 

[chickdiver]

Actually, given your circumstances and the direction you want to go- I would recommend mixing it up a little. Here's what I would recommend to potential student in your position:

1. Cavern- this will teach you the basics of line work, trim, and propulsion. Start diving this way every time you dive, whether it is a cavern dive or not.

2. Intro- you could do a Cavern/Intro combo if your Boyancy and trim are already very good.

3. Buy doubles, BP and harness, canister light, etc. Start diving them in OW so that you become accustomed to the configuration and equipment.

4. Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures. These two courses go well together and really should be taught as a unit (IMHO). This will give you the background you need for the deco obligations in Full Cave.

5. Full Cave

6. Trimix

If you are interested in a normoxic type Trimix course, you could plug that in anywhere along the path (and it would be very useful for both your OW dives and overhead dives). The key is to do a lot of diving at each step, and not just take the courses consecutively. The diving itself (aside from being the "point" of it all) gives you a chance to internalize the knowledge at each step so that when you move to the next there are no surprises.

As for equipment, the same equipment (with minor changes) will work equally well in both environments. The only changes I make from my cave gear for wreck diving is the addition of lift bags and I use a SS backplate rather than the aluminum one I use in freshwater.

 

[TX101]

It also depends on where you live..

Here in the UK, from what I've heard "cave" diving is mostly "dry caving plus a bit of sump diving". The fully flooded caves are generally flooded mines and are very dark and very cold, with sidemount being the primary configuration (with no seperate BCD - you control your buoyancy via your drysuit)..

So in this instance, your gear config isn't really interchangable between OW and cave. So this, plus the fact there is more wrecks per square mile on the south coast of england than anywhere in the world means that most people go the deco/trimix route.