The benefit of specialties

[ComputerX]

I just finished reading the (most recent) Master Scuba Diver thread. I would like to hear people's opinions on the specialties.

My recent experience... I am a new diver, about 15 logged dives. Nearly all of them have been in classes. After I finished my AOW I wasn't satisfied with my buoyancy control. After paying $60 for the PADI Nitrox pamphlet, I wasn't terribly interested in giving them any more money. So I found a good instructor and told him I wanted to improve my skills. We spent over four hours in the pool and did two open water dives where we worked on buoyancy and trim while doing other drills. I don't have a specialty card, but I learned to, while maintaining buoyancy in mid-column, shoot an SMB, remove and don my BCD (by two methods both with different wetsuits and with and without a weightbelt.) We also did lots of mask and out of air drills, again in the middle of the water while maintaining buoyancy. I also learned proper finning to not stir up silt, back finning, and a bunch of stuff I can't think of now. Best of all, he kept me thinking. When he handed me a SMB on the open water dive it was a type I had never seen before (he had made a point to describe different types in class) and he gave me an extra barrel clip. He challenged me not just to do the skills, but to do them with a cognitive load.

I don't have a specialty card, but he has money, the LDS has money, and I am a much better diver; I am pretty happy. I read the instructor outline for Peak Performance Buoyancy. I am pretty sure I got a lot more than I would have in that class, and I spent less money.

OTOH, this weekend I'm diving the Atlanta Aquarium with friends and we are all getting our PADI Whale Shark Distinctive Specialty Certification. I'm not sure what that will net me.

So, and this is an honest question from a new diver, what are the benefits of specialties? Do they mean I will get better dive sites when I show up at a resort with a book full of PADI cards? Are they mainly for collectors? Are they guideposts to show new divers what is available? I can see a lot of possible reasons for them. I would like to hear what experienced people think.

Thank you.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What you found out is that specialties do have value. If the instructor has the skills, knowledge, experience, and initiative to teach them in such a way as to make them valuable. Many do not. They have a specialty instructor manual from the agency with minimums that they have to adhere to. Most are pretty pathetic. The ones that are not are often authored by an instructor for whom the subject is not just an interest but a true passion. And their standards for the course make the official agency one look like kindergarten basics.
I could have gotten a PADI underwater digital photographer instructor card as a DM. How? By taking a one day workshop of which most was how to sell the damn course, had no dives, no real photosoftware use instruction, or even practice with the camera. It was a bull crap money grab. As such I don't teach the class and absolutely refuse to refer anyone to a card carrying instructor for it. I send them to people who make a living or partial living with their photos. There are four people I send them to locally. Two are also actually scuba instructors. The other two are not. They don't need a scuba instructor, they know how to dive. They need a photography instructor.
Same with say a deep course. I would not teach it without some tech certs and tech dive experience. So I have those. I see deep courses going on with non tech certed instructors and it's easy to tell who they are. They do the course with students in al80's and no stages. Playing Russian Roulette with them I call it.
Cards are meaningless if there is no meat with them. Interview your instructors and ask them how far they exceed the standards. If they tell you they teach to them run away. Fast.

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[Agility]

the cards to get are AOW, Nitrox and Deep, as these are the ones the dive operators like to see.
as for training, I do not think you can get too much training, as you already have experienced a good instructor has more to offer than a certification

 

[lindenbruce]

Well, it sounds like you did the right thing and went about it the right way with one on one assistance. Some of the courses agencies offer are pretty watered down and at times I think they are designed more to pad that agencies' pocket book. However, there are a few that you will need. Like Nitrox for example. You will want to take this class. Because one day you will realize the benefits Nitrox offers and also be aware of the dangers increased PPO2 has on a diver. You will also want to get deep, night/limited viz, navigation and possibly even stress rescue. There are others of course depending on what type of diving you plan to do.

As far as getting better dives at a particular local, no. If you read some of the threads on this site you will see a percentage of dive ops/dm's will take anyone anywhere regardless of their training level. What training does do, is helps you to see potential danger signs at dive locals and to help you recognize you abilities to successfully navigate hazards you may encounter while diving. B.

 

[plot]

Most don't have much value, if you have a decent log book with lots of dives it will trump any cert card you may or may not have.

Some are needed for specific things, like to get a tank of nitrox, many operators will require you show a card.

To take pictures while diving, absolutely NO dive op will require you have some underwater photography cert. But if you find a decent instructor it can greatly improve your underwater photography.

If you want to move into the professional side of diving or the technical side (very deep or in caves) you'll need additional training and they'll probably give you cert cards after.

In other words, depends on what you want to do and where you want to take your diving. Most specialties I wouldn't recommend paying for. Some I would.

 

[iluvtheocean]

the only 3 cards I would consider beyond open water (depending on what agency and their standards of teaching) would be AOW, Nitrox, and lionfish (depending on where you live and where you plan on visiting).
honestly I consider the AOW the starting point that gets you exposed to different stuff more than OW does - and for many charters "require" AOW for some of their dives due to liability, depth, conditions, etc.
Nitrox -- reputable shops won't fill/rent nitrox to you w/o a card
and LIONFISH MUST DIE! a few places won't let you hunt them without the cert for some reason -- although Florida allows lionfish hunting without a fishing license by law now.
okay.. maybe deep with a good instructor... since there are so many good wrecks down here but some are quite deep. but if you want to go deep? i'd consider an entry level tech course that teaches decompression since padi doesn't really teach that at the recreational level.

but like Jim said -- it's the instructor that makes it or breaks it -- and for buoyancy control? find a local divers that are good & watch them, ask questions.. and slow down & get a proper weight check -- those were a couple key concepts that everyone has told me.. i've learned more from just from diving and watching & listening to some of the local divers around here.
Might check out out the Padi Solo course, see if it's worth it..


I plan on getting a nice underwater camera when the regular shore one breaks. the DC1400 works fine on land in or out of the case i've heard... i do not plan on taking the padi underwater photography course. digital editing is easy and questions about actually taking pix? i'd talk to a few of the BHB trolls or a couple of friends who are professional photograhers.

so specialties won't get you better dive sites, etc. but they can make you a better prepared diver depending on what you choose & how well it's taught. an example would be a drysuit course if you're going to be diving cold water in a drysuit.

i don't remember being taught how to shoot an SMB in OW or AOW myself -- even though most of the dive boats down here require one.

 

[ComputerX]

What you found out is that specialties do have value. If the instructor has the skills, knowledge, experience, and initiative to teach them in such a way as to make them valuable.

Jim,

First. Thank you for *many* great posts. Especially "Who is responsible for what?."

I think what you meant to say was "What you found out is that specialties do have value, if the instructor has the skills, knowledge, experience, and initiative to teach them in such a way as to make them valuable." The full stop on the first sentence changes the meaning, at least to my reading. It should be a conditional statement, but it seems to me that it is the second clause that carries the value. One could just as easily say "Wearing magnetic underwear has value, if the instructor has the skills, knowledge, experience, and initiative to teach you properly while you are wearing them." It is the instructor who brings the value, not the certification. In my case, I would have gotten a lot less if the instructor were following a particular curriculum. Removing my BCD while all my weight was in drop pockets was... instructive. For me it was the cognitive loading drills that I really enjoyed. I don't see a lot of problem solving (at my level) in the PADI curriculum.

I have my AOW and nitrox cards. UC Santa Cruz has a good reputation, so I am hoping to do AOW again with them next term. If I like them, I will probably do rescue with them the term after that. I plan on getting a deep card.

After that, I'm not sure what I will do for training. GUE and UDT look interesting, but I'm not excited about changing configuration to take a class.

My take so far. Training good. Certification (sometimes) necessary. Specialization meaningless.

---------- Post added November 11th, 2013 at 12:53 PM ----------

i don't remember being taught how to shoot an SMB in OW or AOW myself -- even though most of the dive boats down here require one.

Which is kinda my point. Are they required in any PADI recreational class?

The more I am exposed to PADI, the less I like them. I like giving money to my LDS; they support the community. I like giving money to the boat ops; boats are expensive and I don't know how they can take people out so cheaply. I like giving money to good instructors/DMs; they teach me and take care of me. I like giving money to DAN; I see the good work they are doing. After the $60 pamphlet, I don't really want to give PADI any more money. The whale shark certification smells like base avarice.

 

[plot]

There a reason people call it "put another dollar in", but they are all the same. You won't find it any different from the other agencies, they all serve a purpose in promoting diving and diving awareness though.

There's really a whale shark cert?

 

[ladyfishdvr]

I took the underwater navigation specialty because I felt I was lacking in that area of my diving. I had an excellent instructor and he worked with me and my dive buddy to give us not only what was required but more. He added to the class as it was underway to challenge us further. I really didn't care about getting the specialty card but needed to be more confident and wiser in my navigation and I got both because I had a great instructor. I had my AOW with the same instructor and he went above and beyond in that also. I had a different instructor for my OW and he went above and WAY beyond what was required. He made me a diver. Anything after that has made me a better diver. Eventually I will get nitrox and drysuit and a few others. I can always learn something but having a good instructor is the key.

 

[ComputerX]

There's really a whale shark cert?

And a Manta Ray certification. $70 each. I wouldn't make that up.

Only at the Georgia Aquarium.

My girlfriend wants them (and is paying for both of us.)