The case against ditchable weight

[Rred]

The pros and cons haven't changed in 40 years. Put me in a full 1/4" farmer john with an alu 80 and I may need a 30# weight belt. (OK, really only 28 but the weights are always mismarked as well.) No wet suit? 16#.

If I wanted an emergency ascent, I'd never want to drop all the lead at once. I'd want SOME on my belt, with SOME in pockets or otherwise reachable, so I could dump SOME of it and surface without rocketing up.

But I've also got a secret weapon, because I was taught to have TRIPLE redundancy on everything. My ancient BC has a CO2 inflator, just like an airline life jacket. ALL the good BCs did that, before the dive industry got so goofy. If I need to go UP, NOW and for some reason can't inflate my BC? I pull a short rip cord, and the BC WILL FILL and I will gain enough buoyancy to go up without dropping anything. And then just bleed off the extra pressure on the way up, to stop the rocket launch.

How you manage your buoyancy is your decision. You're ahead of many divers, in that you are thinking in advance of "WHAT HAPPENS IF..." and what you can do to manage it.

By all means, put 8-10# on a second belt, or a pouch, or split half off onto you BC so you have the option of only ditching half. All this "integration" today...It is clean, simple, streamlined, doesn't take much brains or training, but doesn't seem to have improved safety one bit. Quite the opposite.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Have you ever tried this? Ever filled the bC at depth by pulling that cord?

 

[doctormike]

If I need to go UP, NOW and for some reason can't inflate my BC? I pull a short rip cord, and the BC WILL FILL and I will gain enough buoyancy to go up without dropping anything.

Hmmm... so that is basically for a situation where your LP inflator and your oral inflator for some reason stop working, but the bladder still will hold air? That a very specific failure to plan for! I guess it could happen...

Not sure how it would help with two more common BC failures - stuck open inflator or a big leak (from one of the valves).

 

[Steve_C]

The pros and cons haven't changed in 40 years. Put me in a full 1/4" farmer john with an alu 80 and I may need a 30# weight belt. (OK, really only 28 but the weights are always mismarked as well.) No wet suit? 16#.

If I wanted an emergency ascent, I'd never want to drop all the lead at once. I'd want SOME on my belt, with SOME in pockets or otherwise reachable, so I could dump SOME of it and surface without rocketing up.

But I've also got a secret weapon, because I was taught to have TRIPLE redundancy on everything. My ancient BC has a CO2 inflator, just like an airline life jacket. ALL the good BCs did that, before the dive industry got so goofy. If I need to go UP, NOW and for some reason can't inflate my BC? I pull a short rip cord, and the BC WILL FILL and I will gain enough buoyancy to go up without dropping anything. And then just bleed off the extra pressure on the way up, to stop the rocket launch.

How you manage your buoyancy is your decision. You're ahead of many divers, in that you are thinking in advance of "WHAT HAPPENS IF..." and what you can do to manage it.

By all means, put 8-10# on a second belt, or a pouch, or split half off onto you BC so you have the option of only ditching half. All this "integration" today...It is clean, simple, streamlined, doesn't take much brains or training, but doesn't seem to have improved safety one bit. Quite the opposite.

If your BCD cannot hold air then the inflator must fill a separate bag. Is that also attached to the the air release mechanism Just asking.

I heard that those devices were prone to deteriorate over time. How old is yours?

 

[CuzzA]

Not sure I agree with the dislike against Velcro. I'm sure not all pockets are the same and we know nothing lasts forever. But my $10 mesh weight pocket with 4"x2" of velcro ain't ditching itself. A good amount of force is required to open my pockets. Now, if your velcro is covered in seaweed and sand (how does one get covered in sand during a dive?), that's on you for not maintaing your gear. In ~5-10 years I may have to replace the $10 pocket as the velcro will have been worn out, but the same can be said for plastic clips/buckles and other weight systems. One benefit of Velcro is simplicity. Not only for myself, but it's pretty self explanatory to a dive buddy. Whereas some of these weight integrated system need a manual to understand how they function. To each his own, but don't be surprised if I'm looking at you cross eyed when you explain how to ditch your weight. True story.

As far as ditchable vs. non ditchable goes, I'll take my chances fighting against an uncontrolled ascent rather than not being able to regain positive buoyancy, because at the end of the day, the surface is where I want to end up. Sure a dsmb or lift bag could be used in a wing failure, it could also slip out of your hand. At least I know that for me I have properly maintained gear with ditchable weights in the event I need to get to the surface fast or remain there if I'm injured. Since most, including myself, are doing NDL diving the risk of being being bent by skipping your "not required in an emergency" safety stop is very small. Don't hold your breath and more than likely you'll be fine. Even if I were doing deco dives I'd still want my ballast to be ditchable, however, I will admit that with a ceiling I would definitely use a more secure technique than Velcro, probably just a plastic buckle.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.

 

[cool_hardware52]

In the PADI OWD materials, there is great emphasis on being ready, able, and willing to ditch your weights.

For a panicked or otherwise poorly coping diver who is already on the surface, that makes sense.

But at depth, it's not going to save you, and accidental releases have resulted in accidents and fatalities. I read one report where someone spent a week in a hyperbaric chamber because the velcro came loose on their weight pocket.

What am I missing?

Forgive me if I'm touching on points previously made.


"Ditchable weight" is one of those typical scuba mantras that gets repeated without understanding the widely varying conditions and risks across the spectrum of scuba.

I'm in favor of ditchable ballast for some application, I routinely dive with no ditchable ballast for mandatory decompression dives, and lastly with little to no exposure suit buoyancy it simply may not be possible to have ballast *other* than your basic rig.


Where do I encourage divers to configure ballast *at least equal to the weight of their gas* at ditchable and to carry this ballast on their person vs on their "rig"?

Cold water, single tank divers. Doing so offers advantages in terms of required wing capacity (another topic) and it provides a rescuer an easy means to make the diver positive at the surface regardless of the condition of, or their knowledge of, how to operate the victims BC.

For mandatory staged decompression diving ballast that can be lost becomes a liability. The reasons should be obvious. One mitigates this risk of BC malfunction with qualified teammates, drysuits and SMB's / lift bags.

For fit divers in little to no exposure suits there is often no ballast other than their regulator and cylinder. That leaves nothing other than their "rig" to ditch. The good news is if they were careful about their choices in cylinders and BC they won't ever be very negative. They can swim back to the surface, and then ditch their gear if faced with a long wait for pick up. It's patently ridiculous for such a diver to add ballast they don't need simply to provide something to drop, based on their instructor insisting they "always have ditchable ballast"

In short you need to look hard at the "problem" dropping ballast is supposed to solve, the alternatives, and the application in order to make an informed decision about how to carry your ballast.

Tobin

 

[tursiops]

This is the basic scuba discussions forum. Many of the contributions, or part of most of the contributions, belong elsewhere.

 

[Nemrod]

This is the Basic SCUBA Forum, not one of the technical forums. The answers/discussion quickly strayed outside the boundaries of Basic SCUBA diving. If you cannot swim it up and you cannot take it off then you are doing something that does not belong in Basic SCUBA.

Edit: You beat me to it Tursiops!

N

 

[CT-Rich]

Have you ever tried this? Ever filled the bC at depth by pulling that cord?

I used to replace my cartridges every couple of years, so I would fire the old one off. It takes about a day and a half (well a couple or five minutes) for a CO2 to inflate BCD and the final volume on the cartridge is less at depth..... It will make recovering your body a lot easier though.

Something that I have noticed no one has mentioned about ditchable weight at depth. If you are wearing a wetsuit and you were near neutral at the surface you are going to be VERY negative at, say, 80fsw. If you have no air in the BCD (do to the hypothetical rip in it). dumping the weight will may not send you to the surface. The suit compression and the negative buoyancy of the rest of your rig will not necessarily send you to the surface like a rocket. You might actually have to swim part of the way to get your buoyant ascent started. Haven't tried it, (never had a catastrophic BCD failure either)
.

 

[Rusty Roo]

i don't dive with ditchable weight. the risk of flying to surface as weight is dropped by accident is the reason why and in my eyes far more likely. the scenario where i would ditch weight i believe is so remote i don't think about it.