The next step

[trevinkorea]

I'd also suggest that you do the course with the dives included. I know that for some it is not really essential as breathing is breathing regardless of whether it is air or nitrox and doing the dive is the same as well. Your maximum depth is your maximum regardless of the gas. The only thing that changes here is that with nitrox your maximum will be shallower than with air. But as you are not likely to exceed it on a recreational dive it is not a problem.

That said, I would still do the dives. The theory is interesting but the dives are the more enjoyable part. They also drive home the importance of taking the limitations of this gas seriousely and they provide another opportunity to apply the theory in a real environment.

Personally, I take dive classes for enjoyment and would have felt short-changed had the dives not been included.

 

[Fosters]

oddly enough, i get more time with nitrox. i dive with my girlfriend and she is better on air than i am (10-20 bar different after 50mins), but when on nitrox (her on air) our consumption is pretty much the same.

 

[m3830431]

The PADI class reqiures two dives and the EANx was included

 

[scubatoys]

I personally believe that education should include repetition of new skills. If I am teaching open water, the student will get to remove and replace a mask many times until they are comfortable.

In a nitrox class, I do not understand what new skill needs repetition in the water. Clearing a mask with a little extra oxygen coming out your nostrils does not really change that skill. I don't have to show people a new way to push their inflator button.

I have personally certified over 700 divers... in nitrox. Some, we did dives, some not. I don't feel the dives did anything for them other than have a chance to go diving. I can get more reps on testing tanks in my store with 30 tanks, than they can at the lake with 2.

And I've had instructors from other agencies say it's important they do the dives (although according to standards, the instructor does not even have to get in the water) - but still important to do the dives so they can work on buoyancy and not exceed their MOD for the mix.

And I've heard that from instructors getting nitrox fills to go take students to Athens Scuba Park... max depth 25 feet... for students to use 32 mix.

I normally just explain, that actually when we teach scuba... we put that whole buoyancy control concept into our first class... we don't have to re-teach it in nitrox or some super-doper-peak-hover-learn-to-dive-after-you-got-your-card specialty.

I make my class free to audit. Anyone can come sit through the 4 hours of class. If you don't feel with your previous experience and that course that you are not ready to dive nitrox... no problem. I'm not going to charge you. Feel free to take the class anywhere else and pay them to do some dives.

BTW, of the 700+ nitrox students... none of them have decided they needed the dives until their next trip... But they might all be wrong... and me too... Again - all opinions.

 

[WellBelowH2O]

Cancel your SSI class and take a Nitrox class from another agency. IN most nitrox classes you'll learn the same theory and you'll actually make the dives. Making the dives connects theory to practice and it's invaluable, in most cases, for your learning curve. The SSI approach to teaching Nitrox is as absurd as learning how to drive a car using a computer game. How confident (competent) do you think you'd feel if you did that?

In my opinion, I think this argument is flawed. If you want to make a comparison like this, the OW class would be the one that teaches you how to drive a car. The nitrox course would be what teaches you how you can use a different type of gas that allows you to drive longer, but imposes a speed limit. It has nothing to do with the skills learned about basic car operation.

In a nitrox class, I do not understand what new skill needs repetition in the water. Clearing a mask with a little extra oxygen coming out your nostrils does not really change that skill. I don't have to show people a new way to push their inflator button.

I agree with you 100%. I don't understand why ANY dives are required for Nitrox. The practical application is to basically plan a dive profile which includes determining the best mix for your max depth and analyzing your mix. This can all be done in a classroom environment to ensure that the students understand the calculations and can plan the dive. Actually diving the plan as part of a course adds what value? I'd rather spend the money on dives I want to do instead of having to go to a quarry to prove something that can be demonstrated in a classroom.

 

[Diver0001]

In a nitrox class, I do not understand what new skill needs repetition in the water.

I think as an instructor you need to establish before certifying a student to use Nitrox up to 40% (well withing depths that most divers are comfortable/accustomed to diving in) that they have the skills and discipline needed to adhere to the dive plan.

Is that a skill? I think so. And I think it's a skill in which a diver can easily develop sloppiness and bad habits. Around a coffee table, everyone will tell you they have the discipline.

R..

 

[fpsndiver]

....As an added point, most people I see diving EAN don't need it they just like to look "cool". It's a great thing to have but most peoples dive profiles just don't need it.

Not in NC.....nitrox was a godsend here. Most of the local divers I know have gone to higher volume steel tanks, and a couple have made the Al 100 mistake. I respectfully disagree with your above statement. Standard Nitrox (less than EAN41) is the staple down here now for diving, and many of us are using Advanced Nitrox (greater than EAN40). It has nothing to do with looking cool, it has more to do with absorbing less N and getting rid of N much quicker. So I would say it depends on where you are, or what kind of diving you will be doing. I mean, if you are diving in a pond or lake or shallow quarry, all you need is air EAN21, but if you are going below 60 ffw or fsw, Nitrox pays off.

As far as the response to the string initiation here, I think that it is a valuable part of class to plan nitrox dives, plan your gas, analyze your gas,manage your O2 clock, and dive your plan while under the supervision of an instructor. When I did my Nitrox class in 97, we did the checkout dives on dives we were already going to anyway, we didn't demonstrate any skills, but we put the class into the water. Getting out there and diving is always part of the learning process, and you don't have to twist my arm to get me to go dive more..That is the part of the SSI argument I don't understand. Also, read your book beforehand, and try to find other information about nitrox before you enter the class.

 

[Juls64]

I normally just explain, that actually when we teach scuba... we put that whole buoyancy control concept into our first class... we don't have to re-teach it in nitrox or some super-doper-peak-hover-learn-to-dive-after-you-got-your-card specialty.

I don't think most people are "re-teaching" bouyancy control. I think a better term is "reinforcing" it. By the time students are taking Nitrox, many have begun to accumulate their own equipment and have a few more dives under their belt. Most are "improving" on their bouyancy skills and want to improve their diving knowledge. That is why they continue to take classes. What harm is there in having them do a couple of dives, reinforce the "dive planning" part by bringing the gas mix into the equation and having an instructor there to teach, encourage, mentor or whatever the student may need or ultimately get out of it?

Julie

 

[scubatoys]

What harm is there in having them do a couple of dives, reinforce the "dive planning" part by bringing the gas mix into the equation and having an instructor there to teach, encourage, mentor or whatever the student may need or ultimately get out of it?

Julie

I believe Nitrox is great, as it will make for safer divers. I noticed by your profile that you are up in the Midwest. How many divers who are going to do a live aboard in January to the Caymans, will hop in Lake Michigan, or a rock quarry to get a nitrox card in January?? So instead of teaching them the class, they go dive without the added safety nitrox could afford them.

I think everyone should do a bunch of dives... but not necessary for that class. We have the option. If we have folks going on a trip, advanced class etc... great. If they are going away and want nitrox for that... I don't make them do air.

 

[Wayward Son]

I took IANTD, which was 8 solid hrs of classroom work. Quite an excellent class. It included 2 dives, and I see no point in making the dives required in order to get the cert. We did nothing special, I carried a poke pole & looked for flounder to stab.

If you can plan a dive, you can plan a dive. Using EAN simply meant using a table appropriate for the blend, or doing the math equivanlent on a std table. Big deal.

That being said, I like to dive, so any excuse to roll off a boat works for me. I'm not complaining about doing the dives, just saying that IMHO they served no functional purpose dictaing they be required.