Thinking about buying a boat

[cool_hardware52]

That said--I DO NOT LIKE that boat you pictured. I would avoid that type boat entirely. Since you have cooler weather up where you are I would look for a small cuddy cabin in the 20ish foot range.

The Thunderbird is a bow rider, and the space under the front deck is a bit cramped, but is out of the weather. With a folding top and vinyl side glass they can be tolerably dry in sloppy conditions. With full rear canvas I spent many many weekends "boat camping" at Catalina with my sister and Mom and Dad.

Preferably a unsinkable type hull. Now, as Chuck points out, there is only one "Unsinkable Legend" and it is the Boston Whaler. We love our 19 foot center console Boston Whaler, dive from it, ski from it, trailer it from the Great Lakes to the lakes of Missouri and down to the Gulf for some diving and fishing this coming summer.

Center console boats are nice, but the center console takes up a lot of room.

If your in the market for a trailerable boat then I would stay with outboard power. The new outboards are exceptionally efficient and reliable. This is not the 50's.

The Outboards are nice, and a pair of 4 strokes, or (even a single) would be a very reliable and full efficient choice. OTOH I/O based on a common auto block is pretty cheap work on, and if "crate motor" long blocks are available I'd be tempted to just rebuild / swap out the marine accessories on to a new motor.

Tobin

 

[Nemrod]

I don't think it is a bow rider. When I said "that kind of boat" I meant the tri hull and the two piece construction of a deck held to the hull by who knows what. If it is a bow rider then that is a definite no way. Unlike a variety of open type boats, center console or other types that are designed to shed water when it comes over the bow though notched transoms and deck level scuppers (especially outboard powered center consoles) the typical bow rider will stuff it's bow and fill with water. The bow being compartmentalized at least partially results in a boat that will likely soon capsize with the next wave because they cannot shed water. Most boats designed for ocean use, small or large, will have a large forward hull displacement as well which results in a huge increase in displaced water when the bow is shoved into a oncoming wave. I do not see that type of design in the Thunderbird. Furthermore, once the hull fills with water and is trapped there since that design is not self bailing (self clearing or water shedding) then the I/O engine will most likely stop running. A dead engine and a boat full of water generaly result in the boat capsizing. Self bailing hulls can and do come back up on top when you pour the coals to them and with an outboard the powerhead remains above the water providing manuvering power to clear that warter and manuver for the next wave. Tri hulls ride very rough as well. It is a design that has fallen in disfavor. The catherdral hull of some Whalers is not the exaggerated tri-hul of the boxy Thunderbird. The last thing, above twenty feet true inboard power becomes increasingly attractive with each additional foot--but--if you look around, most serious offshore boats up to around 30 feet are outboard powered, most are center console or cuddy cabin, most have deck level scuppers and notched transoms for shedding water, most have a high degree of inate bouyancy.

Anyways, that is enough, dogs want to go out. I will say no more, just wanted to clarify "that kind of boat."

The boat in the series Flipper was a Thunderbird, I remember the Thunderbird symbol on it's side.

N

 

[Bob3]

You might want to buy a couple hours of time from a surveyor and have him go rap on the hull.

Darn good idea.
I warned a guy about dryrot on his "Tupperware" sailboat & he laughed at me - 'till the deck cleats started pulling loose. (wooden core was rotted)
Check for longitudinal cracking along the keel up forward; some boats collect water & when they freeze, POP!
The crack can be dang near microscopic, until the boat is left in the water overnight.
Then someone like me gets a phone call at 4:30 AM to come down with the boom truck to pick the critter up off the bottom.
I like steel boats; carry around a torch & a DC welder in 'em & you're all set.

 

[fweber]

Peter,

Good luck with finding the "right" boat for you. Not knowing your local conditions and diving habits: I add my name to the list of people not over enthused about the tri-hull. I've dived from boats like that, and while stable, none of them have been very good at hauling divers. If I were to add another boat to my fleet for the specific purpose of diving: For up to four divers, moderate conditions that exceed flat calm, something you can spend the half day on that is required to get two good dives in , trailerable. I would look at 19-24 ft center console or in your weather walkaround style cuddy, powered by one of the newer technology outboards of 160-225 hp. Buy as much horsepower as you can afford to move all the weight that divers and their gear represent, and then prop it for a top speed of only around 35 knots. This should give you plenty of torque to still get up and go with 4 sets of gear onboard. In addition to require CoastGuard Kit add, O2, additional first aid, an extremely stable and strong ladder, a laminated list of VHF frequencies, emergency phone numbers and the appropriate procedures mounted at the helm, tag line, a drop tank, bag style throw line(this can save the day if someone looses the tag line in a current, cheap contingency plan), a good cooler with plenty of water. Near shore as you are, I don't think I would worry about backup motors, but keep your primary in reliable repair.

Between the members of my team we now own quite a few boats, from 10-40 feet. One just bought a 24 foot walkaround cuddy with a 225 for just this purpose. It's working out great. He previously had a 20 bowrider, and there is just no comparison for diving. As Nemrod said, costs start going up quickly as you pass the 20' mark. I see your 10k budget as a bit of a challenge, but if you put 6k or so toward propulsion, you then have about 4k with which to look for an older hull that is still complete but in need of repower. This is where walking around boat yards and talking to people is going to pay off. There is a good chance that the owners of the boat you are looking for, have given up on advertising it and it's sitting there costing them storage each month. Look at boattrader, boats.com, or the like to get an idea of what's in the area. Don't be afraid to make an offer that is half or less of the asking price of such boats. Good luck.

Merry Christmas,

 

[Wildcard]

In this day of $3 gas, economy becomes important too. Glass is heavy and takes extra power. Whalers are even heaver than regulr glass boats so not only are they more expensive they take nearly twice the power/fuel. Sorry BW fans but it's true. Consider an anluminum skiff in the 20-22 range. Fast, light most are very stable and you can tow them with a smaller rig not to mention the savings on gas for the boat as well as a smaller motor. For some the safety of whalers is worth the extra cost, for some, it's not worth it if your not boating in heavy weather. Just a thought.....

 

[Hank49]

In this day of $3 gas, economy becomes important too. Glass is heavy and takes extra power. Whalers are even heaver than regulr glass boats so not only are they more expensive they take nearly twice the power/fuel. Sorry BW fans but it's true. Consider an anluminum skiff in the 20-22 range. Fast, light most are very stable and you can tow them with a smaller rig not to mention the savings on gas for the boat as well as a smaller motor. .

This is very true. Money is the biggest consideration in buying a boat. If it wasn't a limiting factor, I'd have a 36 foot Contender, deep V, center console with twin four stroke 200s, trimmed out with the best of all GPS, fishfinder, radio....keep it moored with all the boats up in Belize City instead of dragging it over 3 miles of rough dirt road to launch it in a shrimp farm supply canal...that would go anywhere off shore in Belize in most weather. but it would cost US$90 - $100,000. So, I settled for a $16,000, 25 foot skiff that'll handle pretty rough weather, get me more wet and use 1/6 of the gas.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I don't think it is a bow rider.

The T-bird my dad owned had a shallow deck forward, maybe 4 inches deep from the top rail. Self bailing scuppers on the sides. "BowRider" was poor choice of words. There was no seating, but you sure could ride on the bow if so inclined.

I don't know if T-Bird build other configurations. It is hard to tell from Peter's picture, and I don't see the scuppers were I recall them being, so you might be correct.

The space under the forward deck was nice for nearly dry storage.


Tobin

 

[Peter Guy]

Tobin and Nemrod, the T-bird I'm looking at is a 21 footer that has a cuddy cabin (which is a requirement for both the weather AND for porta-potty privacy -- or so sayeth TSandM). I recall the cabin as being cramped but useable (and, of course, once I see this particular boat I'll have a better idea).

I've heard people say this particular hull doesn't do well in rough conditions but that is NOT my memory -- or to put it another way, it is no rougher than any other 20 footer. (I also remember something my Dad learned one day -- "I don't know what 'Small Craft Warnings' really mean but I do know they mean ME!")

Yes, there is a lot of nostalgia built into this particular boat (as there was in my last sailboat -- a boat I'd loved for years before I finally bought) and maybe I'm being blinded by memory of the good old days of two hose regs and farmer john wetsuits. I'd like to think I'm not as dumb as I look (don't we all) and I hope I'll not let emotion write the check.

Thanks for the tips and keep 'em coming.

 

[Nemrod]

Cool harware, that Thunderbird is kinda of retro cool isn't it?

Whaler not efficient and heavy---lol---urban legend for the Unsinkable Legend. Many modern boats utilize similar foam filled hulls, Edgewater comes to mind and there are many others. Each has their own particular twist on the unsinkability and all are good boats. Efficinecy, our Outrage 190 gets 5.5 MPG running at close to 30 MPH. It is easy to calculate this because the SmartCraft insturmentation gives a direct read out and additionally all the numbers to calculate it yourself. Lightly loaded we have seen close to 6 MPG at about 23 MPH. Fuel consumption starts going up fast above 30 MPH. Top speed and GPS verified lightly loades is about 48 MPH but with a typical load more like about 46. This coming year I will add tabs and a four blade prop. For the last few years we had been diving only myself and occasionaly my wife so we were light on the load. This Fall we went out with two other divers and enough gear for two dives each plus we had two "deckhands" on board and a dog. Not only that but the wind had kicked up and we were running into 3 foot chop. The Whaler loved it, I did not get any economy numbers though that day that I recall.

I would add a three step center pole type dive ladder to your list. Look into the new DSC capable radios, most are coming that way I think, it may be the law now? Hummingbird has just introduced two new side scan sonars. Good thing I got mine at heavy discount--closeout. The two new models have continuous recording capability rather than snapshot capability--well--and that too. One of them is only a 1,000 dollars, smaller screen but nice looking unit. You will of course need several anchors and lines, a bouy, a dive flag and some type of mount and some means of holding tanks. I like the Roll Control system that Chuck mentioned.

I caution on expectations, a twenty foot boat with four divers, two hands and two sets of doubles each like the OPs wife dives with is going to be a workout for that size boat. It will be crowded.

I would junk the I/O and modify the transom for a outboard. Lowball them on the offer price. Just me maybe, but, I really think low of I/O boats in general, auto engine bolted down on to a wooden cradled scabbed onto what is proably a fairly flexible hull will and does result in drive line vibration. It is a maintenance intensive set up.

I hesitate to mention a RIB, about 15 or 16 feet with around 75 horsepower. Open hull with room for four single tank divers, store it ready to go on the trailer. Roll up inflatibles like mine are great but the assembly each time you want to use it gets old--real fast.

The 10,000 dollar figure is very low when you start in on boats but if your handy with tools it is possible.

Oh, sailboats, generally do not make a good dive boat. Now if you have a liveaboard sized sailing vessal with a Zodiac service boat, then that is a great set up.

If it (the Thunderbird) were not I/O powered I might try to buy it out from under you, Flipper, Flipper, lives in a world full of wonder, lying down under, under the sea!

N

 

[Splitlip]

Actually, they were better decribed as tri hulls, not cat hulls. My familly had one in the 70's. Very rough riding if there were any seas. They were pretty stable because of the hull, but real uncomfortable riding out. If you want stable, there are better options including a Cat.
I do have to say, my Irish Setter once fell straight off the bow, under the boat while we were running at about 3/4 throttle. He popped up swimming astern, non the worse for wear. (we crossed a little wake and he went airborne)