Thoughts in Dive Cancellations

[boulderjohn]

I arrived at the operator's dive site right on time, got on the boat, and started to gear up, but I learned there was a problem. They had started the day with an expectation of 7 divers on the boat, but after a flurry of cancellation calls, they only had 2 divers now. Since we were already on the boat, they decided not to cancel, as they would have if the calls had come earlier. The divemaster was upset. He said the problem was that so many boats cancel the dives at the last minute that the locals had learned to register for several dives on the same day, finally choosing the best ones from the ones that don't cancel. His suggested solution, which he repeated several times, was for people to have to give a credit card number when they schedule the dive, with the dive fees non-refundable. He said that would solve the problem.

I could certainly see the problem from that operator's point of view, but I could also see it from the diver's point of view. At that point I had been in south Florida for a little over two weeks of perfect diving weather, and 4 of my scheduled dives had been canceled by the operator at the last minute, leaving me to find alternative plans for the day. I later had other dives canceled. I was actually thinking of doing what the divemaster was complaining about--scheduling with different operations so I would be more likely to get the dive. It certainly is a problem for everyone, but while there is no doubt that non-refundable registration fees would have an impact, I don't think it would be a positive impact, and I have a different idea for a solution.

First some thoughts on non-refundable registration fees:

• A few years ago, on the day I had a dive canceled, I ran into a ScubaBoard thread in which people complained about having to pay for a scheduled dive even though they had to cancel. The reason was non-refundable registration fees. It took very little detective work to find out that they were talking about the dive I had just had canceled! In other words, after collecting their money, the operator canceled the dive anyway. He figured out that the fees he had collected from them were money in the bank, so he still came out money ahead by canceling the dive for me and for whoever else was still ready to go. He screwed the customers, but came out ahead financially. Non-refundable registrations solves the problem for the operator, but not necessarily for the divers.
• In the course of the 5 weeks I eventually stayed here, I logged nearly 30 dives, the overwhelming majority with one operator. There would have been more without the cancellations. One day I was happily preparing to for a dive at a site I had myself requested, but I suddenly became ill and realized I could not dive. I sadly called to cancel. They were nice about it. If they had instead charged me for that dive when I was legitimately ill and after I had been such a good customer, I would have been furious, and I would have started looking for a different operator.

For a better solution, I suggest the strategy used by an operator I use in another dive location I have visited frequently. They advertise that they never make last minute cancellations of dives because of a low numbers of passengers. If you are scheduled to go on a boat, you can go to bed the evening before confident that the boat will go, weather permitting. As someone who has had a number of dives on my one-week dive vacations canceled at the last minute, that certainty is important to me. I think it is important to a lot of people. Consequently, a lot of people book with that operator, and I suspect that the result is they probably never have a problem with low numbers of divers.

In contrast, the dive operator I mentioned above, the one that canceled the dive even after charging the people who couldn't go, is one that I used to use frequently over the last 15 years that I have been coming to south Florida. Their reputation for canceling trips has grown to the point, though, that I did not even look at their web site once in the 5 weeks I was here. I want to go with someone I can trust.

I realize that running a boat without the minimum number of passengers will cost a little that day. I was on a boat a week or so ago when they had to go out with 3 divers instead of the normally required 4 because the 4th did not show. I suppose they lost some money on that trip, but they gained a lot of good will. I was with them the next day, too, and they had 20 paying customers that day. There was barely room to move on the boat. So on those 2 days, they averaged 11.5 divers on one boat. Not too bad.

 

[Hawkwood]

This is interesting John. Is this a "regional" thing?

I have never dived in Florida and have never encountered this. Often my wife and I have been the only ones on a boat. I have yet to have dived with an operator who has cancelled on us based on there not being enough people.

I am currently booked to do some dives when I am on the Big Island next week. For one of the dives that I booked to do, the website clearly stated that there was a minimum number needed for that trip. In that case I know going in that there may be alternate arrangements.

 

[kelemvor]

I'm sure this is a tough situation for captains in some areas. However, from the customer perspective (mine) I would not book with an operator asking for money up front. Not unless all boats in that area did it this way leaving me no choice.

This sounds to me like a similar situation to the one many local shops are finding themselves in. That is, way too much supply for the available customer demand.

As for the guy charging the people and then not providing the service. I think that's different. That sounds like a straight up scam to me. Dishonest people are all over the world, I try and avoid them as best I can.

 

[nimoh]

perhaps another option:

It doesn't have to be a full refund, or no refund. Charging $10 for a diver initiated cancellation within 3 days of departure would probably deter the locals from booking with everyone and then choosing where to dive on the day of the dive.

By reducing the number of diver initiated cancellations, the number of low occupancy initiated cancellations should also decrease.

 

[conchrandy]

OP here. Here's the way I do it.

I run two trips daily 9 am and 1:30. We tell all of our guests that the morning trip has a 6 person minimum. If it doesn't go for that reason, we unconditionally guarantee the afternoon trip regardless of number of passengers. We think this is the best compromise between disappointing a customer and maintaining a reasonable income.

Further we take cell numbers and call the day before just like your dentist would. This works to the extent that if a customer has a change of plans they will be forthcoming.

Also, we do not take credit cards of any sort over the phone. But all guests must check in at an hour prior to departure or the space goes to a "standby" much like the airlines. One exception is a private charter which we ask for payment up front for obvious reasons.

In summation, we bend over backwards for our divers in this crazy competitive industry. Best in the long run, we want them to come back.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The only way I would cancel on a boat would be if I was in the hospital (sorry if I am in the morgue, you are not guaranteed to get notice that I won't be showing up). I'd do my best to let the boat operation know.

There has got to be a way of boat operations being protected against flaky customers.

There has got to be a way for good customers to be protected against flaky boat operations.

I'm early in my diving career, so I'm sure I will face this someday.

 

[Shawn95]

I have never booked on a boat as a tourist that I have not had to pay for my spot in advance. There has always been a cancellation policy so that I get a refund as long as I don't cancel inside 24 hours. Why would you complain about others cancelling (for whatever reason) then say that you would do the same thing and not expect to pay? On the day where you were on the boat and they collected cancellation fees they absolutely should have taken you out for the dives. If you take up a spot on the boat that they could not book since you cancel in the last minute then that is an unreasonable way to expect dive companies to do business. The boat operators should come to some sort of agreement on double bookings since it must affect all of them in the same way.

 

[Steve_C]

It differs greatly from place to place.

In NC where the runs out can easily be 1.5-3 hours, making that run with one or two divers will bankrupt them.

My preferred dive op (over 100 dives) allows cancelations by the diver up to 5 days before the trip. After that if there is an empty seat due to you they can charge your credit card if they wish. If somebody takes your spot then there is no charge. If they cancel the trip for any reason then there is not charge. They operate on repeat business so there is no way they are going to try and screw the client by charging if they cancel.

On each boat there is a min number of divers for the boat to go. They will sometimes go with a few less but it is their choice.

As a general rule they try to cancel a dive the evening before by 6 if they are going to cancel so 90% of the time you know ahead of time.

Now down in the Florida Keys the previous posts is why I like to dive with Ocean Divers. They have a 2 diver min even on their big boats. Horizon has a 4 diver min.

Remember once on a different op there was a 4 diver min and just two of us showed up. So we bought a couple ghosts. Given all the other expense if I am in the Keys (plane, motel, car rental) it was not much for what turned out to be 2 great dives.

 

[Adventure-Ocean]

I operated boats for tourist trips of all kinds for many years. The company owning the vessel often had agencies signing divers for them. The only way we wouldn't go is if the captain decides it's too rough or the boat brakes down. In either case, the divers get a total refund. I've taken out boats capable of handling 50 divers with only one couple. On those days the company loses money. Because the dive boats are consistant, the business works. The agencies helping with sales develope a positive reputation and get more sales. When business is doing well our boat would max out our capacity daily for months.

With the smaller boats it's about the same. To cancel a boat trip was to be unreliable. Since there were good dives in the harbor, even rough seas would not prevent the boat from going out. They may have to go to sites the divers didn't pay to go and for that they'd have their methods of partial refunding. Even if there is only two paying customers the trip goes out. To upset your customers was to upset the source that brought them to you.

If I were diving where you are, it would be my goal to seek out companies with a reputation for quality treatment of their customers. It does't mean cancellations won't happen. It's just that when they do you'd hope to be treated as a valued customer.

The diving business is fueled by the tourist business. The tourist business never rests. If you are getting into the business you'd better be ready to provide a quality daily service. Cancellations are just not good for the company. Reliability is. Adventure-Ocean

 

[koozemani]

I had a trip in Key West cancelled due to insufficient divers. What the op, and apparently a few others, did was call around to figure out who had a boat going out. We got our dives in and they actually turned out cheaper. So why not partner up with one or two other ops for these situations and take turns being "the boat" that goes out. If 3 different boats are canceling because they only have 1-2 divers, that's now 3-6 divers out a couple of dives.

no offence BoulderJohn, but I seem to recall another recent thread about cancellations and refunds by another Coloradan. Lol. This must be a hit button topic in the Rockies.