Tips on tips

[TheUWPhotographer.com]

I was the manager at a dive resort in Micronesia and the staff knew exactly what nationalities tipped and which didn't. I tried my darnest to lead by example but they did treat different people differently. That's not what the guests from these various countries deserved. The culture in Micronesia and ever Honduras is such that many people in the so called service industry treat people based on expected tips. What a crappy way of doing things. Yes us American's are helping create this crazy situation.

I see this happen in other countries too and have probably gotten sucked into it myself. I've also noticed that on charters where the crew is not local, the entire attitude is a bit more superficial and their quality of service gets really good as they are handing out the tip envelopes at the end of the week. I much prefer local crew for this reason. I also tend to tip more when I've been on a charter with a local crew or when I'm back on a boat where the crew is always the same and I know the guys. I know the money means a lot to them and their families. They've made this their career, and its not just an adventurous summer job.

I doubt that many people believe that in a service industry like this tipping is not warranted, but should it be their main source of income?

 

[cappyjon431]

I doubt that many people believe that in a service industry like this tipping is not warranted, but should it be their main source of income?

It definitely should NOT be their main source of income, but unfortunately, in most cases, it is. That is why I have been trying to emphasize the reality of what the situation is, not some hypothetical what it should be.

As an aside, my employees at my present dive operation (we are located in a country where tipping is appreciated, but not expected) asked for a tip jar to be placed in the shop or on the boats. I told them that as soon as I saw that their level of customer service met MY expectations (and mine are very high because of my liveaboard experience), I would consider a tip jar, but not until then.

 

[darkstar]

My opinions about tipping aside, here's a really good guide

Tip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tipping 10-15% is certainly NOT universal and so knowing what the local custom is helps to ensure that you treat the crew fairly. Ideally, you would research this BEFORE booking your live aboard.

I do think that people shouldn't feel bad about tipping less if they didn't think the service they got was worth the money. Even if it's because the customer themselves chose not to use the service. If the money was really that bad, then it would be harder to find folks to work the boats and the companies that own the boats would need to offer higher salaries to attract quality workers.

 

[cappyjon431]

My opinions about tipping aside, here's a really good guide

Tip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tipping 10-15% is certainly NOT universal and so knowing what the local custom is helps to ensure that you treat the crew fairly. Ideally, you would research this BEFORE booking your live aboard.

I do think that people shouldn't feel bad about tipping less if they didn't think the service they got was worth the money. Even if it's because the customer themselves chose not to use the service. If the money was really that bad, then it would be harder to find folks to work the boats and the companies that own the boats would need to offer higher salaries to attract quality workers.

Absolutely correct, people should not feel bad about tipping less if the service was not woth the money. Take it a step further and not only decrease the tip, but let the captain and the corporate office know.

The money is not bad if guests tip 10-15%, but you will find that liveaboards have an incredibly high turnover rate (the industry average is approximately six months) and part of that is due to low pay (with or without tips) and frequent 16 hour days.

In the late 90s, tips were great (the boat was always full) and we had a crew that stayed together for the better part of two years. This crew was incredibly solid and customer service was awesome. After 911, there was a sharp decrease in people traveling abroad, our numbers suffered, and the turnover was very high (I saw literally hundreds of DMs and instructors come and go).

 

[ncchuck]

I like your last comment CappyJon indicating what the situation "is". How are we as divers or consumers of any type suppose to know what someone makes in a particular situation? Each situation is different and we can't possible know. Having worked in the diving industry and even for your former company, I do know how they get paid. It's not very good as you suggest but as I said, I don't think most are in it for the money. As I said in my first post, I do tip but I don't use any percentage as a guide. I use service above what is considered normal as my guide. I won't pay extra (TIP) for service that was expected for my two or three thousand dollar trip. I know most boats split tips and that makes it even worse. On a boat as large as the Nekton's, I may not have had any contact with some of the staff members (engineer for instance on typical trip with lots of repairs being done) so how would I even know if they provided service that was special.

Theuwphotographer mentions local crews their apparant need. I tend to agree with that but I know from personal experience how flawed that method can be. I've had crews that could smile and provide great service with the best of them. At the end of the week, one member might drink himself silly with the tips while another bought clothes for his children. (On a dive trip once, I tipped the boat driver and he got so drunk he got fired that night) You can't possibly know. The drinkers in my case could lie (to divers) with the best of them. Some claimed multiple children, sick mothers and the like. It was something like the door to door salespeople we sometimes see right here at home. Since I felt like I knew my crew and I didn't need to money, I gave my tips to those that worked the hardest and used the extra money wisely. Maybe stupid but that's the way I did it.

Maybe I'm on a one man crusade to change the system and I have no chance of succeeding but I'll keep on trying.

 

[cappyjon431]

Maybe I'm on a one man crusade to change the system and I have no chance of succeeding but I'll keep on trying.

Chuck, there is nothing wrong with trying to change the system (and there are many parts of the system that need changing!). My concern is that it is important not to injure those that are the "innocent bystanders" in the battle. DMs and instructors are just trying to make a decent living. If liveaboard companies paid better, crewmembers wouldn't depend on tips. That is where the battle should be waged. I just think it is somewhat hypocritical (not you, because you make it clear that you do tip) to be angry at "the system" and then go out on a liveaboard anyway and to not tip to prove a point. The company still gets their fare, but the crew (the hardest workers) suffers as a result.

 

[PvtStash]

Finally, I am still curious how you could encourage excellent service from crew members if they just received straight salary? What would be the motivation for a crewmember? I can see a lot of "I'm getting paid anyway, why should I lug his 100 pound dive bag" etc. Car salespeople were mentioned in the above post. Why do you think car salesmen are paid on commision? If they got a straight salary, there would be no motivation to sell.

How does your employer get performance from you? Truth is the Vast majority of people who work in this world DONT get tipped and yet do a Damn good job because they take pride in thier work and their Good at it...

 

[cappyjon431]

How does your employer get performance from you? Truth is the Vast majority of people who work in this world DONT get tipped and yet do a Damn good job because they take pride in thier work and their Good at it...

I own my own business, so my bottom line is dependent on my performance. If I don't provide kick arse customer service, my business suffers.

Most workers do take pride in their work, and do a good job at it. They also make wages above the minimum wage. For those in the service industries (restaurants, hotel maids, liveaboard crews) that notoriously underpay their employees, the tips are essential. Most liveaboard crew members (DMs and instructors) work 84-112 hours a week (12 to 16 hour days, seven days a week) for a salary of $100-$200/week. That comes out to an average salary of about $.75 an hour. Granted, they get room & board too, but 75 cents an hour justifies a tip.

 

[Gtoph]

That comes out to an average salary of about $.75 an hour. Granted, they get room & board too, but 75 cents an hour justifies a tip.

Justifies a tip? whoa... I don't think so.

Excellent, above and beyond service justifies a tip, not making .75 an hour. I agree with previous posts... the crew knows how the industry works, they know before they take the job that the pay is crap. They do it because they love to dive or other personal reasons, not to get rich.

On another note about motivation to do their jobs if they only got a salary... umm, if they didn't do their jobs, fire 'em...how about that. Turnover is high anyway, and particularly now, there are a ton of other people that would love to have the opportunity.

 

[cappyjon431]

Justifies a tip? whoa... I don't think so.

Excellent, above and beyond service justifies a tip, not making .75 an hour. I agree with previous posts... the crew knows how the industry works, they know before they take the job that the pay is crap. They do it because they love to dive or other personal reasons, not to get rich.

On another note about motivation to do their jobs if they only got a salary... umm, if they didn't do their jobs, fire 'em...how about that. Turnover is high anyway, and particularly now, there are a ton of other people that would love to have the opportunity.

Gtoph you are correct, I should have written out my thoughts completely. $.75 AND outstanding service justifies a tip. I have never argued that tips should be automatic, just that they should be in the 10-15% range if the service is excellent.

The crew does know how the industry works, and many take these positions for the love of diving and adventure. They also take them so they can meet their financial obligations and they also need to make enough money to support themselves during their off times. Most of them are told when they are hired on that the industry average for tipping on a liveaboard is 10-15% of the cruise fare (and I can vouch for this because I worked in a liveaboard company's corporate office for 2 years and it was usually the first question asked by potential crewmembers), so they do come to expect this tip, assuming that they provided great service.

Thank God that in the many years I worked on the boat our customers were generous and appreciative of the hard work that we did to make our guests' trips safe, enjoyable, and memorable. The vast majority tipped at least 10-15% and very few made lame excuses for not tipping.

I still maintain that if you can't show your appreciation to a crew who has pampered you all week with great service then perhaps you should rethink spending thousands of dollars on a cruise. You might be angry with the whole tipping policy, but don't take it out on the crew--speak with your wallet and don't support the liveaboard company that pays so little that employees are dependent on tips to make an honest wage.