To Buddy or not to Buddy?

[TSandM]

I think the buddy system is a great thing sometimes, and that it limits opportunities sometimes.

I think any time you do something with other people, the outcome will be some kind of compromise. Personally, I have almost never done a dive that went slowly enough to suit me -- I really like to sit in one place for a long time and watch stuff, and most people want to keep moving. But the benefits of having buddies, to me, have outweighed having to change the dive I might otherwise want to do somewhat. The camera has put a bit of a spanner in the works, though . . .

 

[mainedvr]

I used to think solo diving was bad thing. But now I am not so sure. Is it for me? Who knows

I had an experience the other day. We were diving with two buddy teams (ie total of 4), and I got seperated from the group. Normally if the buddy teams split no worry, but well it was 3 and 1 at this point. I spent a few minutes looking, and then finally said you know what, I am just going to continue my dive. I was calm, comfortable, and plenty of time and air. Sure enough about 30 seconds later I found my buddy downstream and we resumed together.

Now most people would jump on me and say that's not right, proper practice is to surface!! But alas that is not the way we work it here. We dive in a shipping channel, and you do absolutely not come up in the channel unless it is a true emergency. So either way I would have to start swimming out of there on my own.

So would I ever purposely dive on my own?? Nope. But maybe if I was comfortable then yes I would continue a dive solo.

My thoughts - do whatever you feel is right for you. It's your life you get to choose. People will critisize no matter what

Not bashing your post and I do agree it is you life, but remember if something should happen to you and emergency responders are called in or a passer buyer comes to your aid, then its not just your life that could be at risk. If you dive plan is not to surface when seperated for the reason you described then follow the plan, that is our plan at times dependent on if we are in a high boat traffic area, we do have a spot usually we know is safe from boat traffic due to rocks or something but again dive your plan.

Sorry, if I came across like a jerk but as I said sure its your life but when you put others in a situation where now their in harms way well thats not right IMHO

 

[TMHeimer]

Ok, my apologies I misunderstood you.

So isn't "Discovery Scuba" just that? taking a person that has never been underwater for a quick look and then if they like it enough, they go a get the full OW? I thought that was already a common practice. I wouldn't have the patience for that but if others do, who am I to say if it is right or wrong?

I assume non pros have for decades done unofficial Discover Scuba courses. My freind ('80s diver) showed his wife-- "Here, put this in your mouth and breathe" she said were his exact words. We also know that in some cases, an OW diver with 2,000 dives can do fine showing someone the ropes. Just like a top experienced professional trumpet player with no teacher training can (actually more often than not) teach a private trumpet student even better than a licensed music educator. But I would think with scuba it is risky. You can't die of lung overexpansion playing the trumpet. There is also the liability. Insured dive instructors have the this protection if they follow standards. Others don't.

 

[ReefHound]

So isn't "Discovery Scuba" just that? taking a person that has never been underwater for a quick look and then if they like it enough, they go a get the full OW? I thought that was already a common practice. I wouldn't have the patience for that but if others do, who am I to say if it is right or wrong?

No it isn't. It's having the training and qualifications (being an instructor) to teach the minimum basic theory and skills for said new diver to go underwater for a quick look without killing themselves. And having the training and qualifications to watch said diver carefully and handle any emergencies that may arise. BTW, he didn't say he "teaches" Discover Scuba, he said he takes people diving sorta like that.

I think it's irresponsible to take a uncertified person under the water unless you have the training and qualifications (and dare I say, professional liability insurance) to conduct Discover Scuba. It not only exposes them to risk but you to civil liability. And perhaps even criminal liability if something goes horribly wrong.

Scuba diving is really easy... when everything goes right.

 

[Ana]

BTW, he didn't say he "teaches" Discover Scuba, he said he takes people diving sorta like that.

Got it!!!

You are totally correct, he didn't say "teaches" but I did assume that's what he did.

Sheeesh... poor dude is truly messed up, brain washed AND playing instructor.

 

[fjpatrum]

I think it's irresponsible to take a uncertified person under the water unless you have the training and qualifications (and dare I say, professional liability insurance) to conduct Discover Scuba. It not only exposes them to risk but you to civil liability. And perhaps even criminal liability if something goes horribly wrong.

Scuba diving is really easy... when everything goes right.

I will most likely be in the minority, but I completely disagree with this sentiment. People were diving a fair while before there were certification agencies. I believe that in some places clubs are the way people learn still, though they do have some sort of certification process.

There will always be people who will be just fine with a buddy/mentor type of learning and as far as I'm concerned it should be allowed, though perhaps not encouraged. People willing to push the limits are the same type of people who started this sport. Yes, they can push the limits in other ways but let's face it, you can't stop someone from getting some air and taking a dip. No matter how hard you try people will continue the practice of diving without professional certification. Yes, diving is safer than it was, but that could arguably be attributed not to certifications but to gear improvements. Were there really that many people dying on SCUBA before the certification agencies? Sure there were a lot less divers but were they really less capable than the instructors today at delivering the important lessons?

 

[Ana]

Well it is allowed, in the sense that it isn't illegal.

It sure is not encouraged, it is up there on the list when it comes to things a good-safe-knowledgeable-responsible diver will use to shun other lesser divers.

 

[mathauck0814]

+1, I don't buy that a PADI DM with potentially ~50 dives and a few months of experience is better suited to bring a newbie underwater than someone with 10+ years and thousands of dives.

 

[DevonDiver]

I will most likely be in the minority, but I completely disagree with this sentiment. People were diving a fair while before there were certification agencies. I believe that in some places clubs are the way people learn still, though they do have some sort of certification process.

What happened before shouldn't determine what happens now.

The existence of agencies, and the availability of certified instructors who teach to a common syllabus and standards, means that legal/liability precedents now exist.

A diver doesn't need a certification to dive. However, taking responsibility/duty of care for other divers (especially untrained ones) opens up a host of legal liability issues.

 

[boulderjohn]

As a part of my instructor training, we viewed a video re-enactment of a training accident that really did happen. Our job was to see what mistakes the instructor and assistant made that led to the accident. There were several, and they fell under the general heading of not paying enough attention to the diver's growing needs.

In the incident, the diver panicked and bolted to the surface from the deep end of a swimming pool. She died of an embolism on the surface of the pool. Yes, the diver died from a sudden panicked ascent in a swimming pool with a trained instructor and and assistant.

But the odds are pretty good that such a calamity will not happen to a diver taking an untrained non-diver on a fun dive. Even though this diver has not had any training on what should be taught before the pool experience, what should be covered in the pool experience to make sure nothing goes wrong in the open water experience, what signs to look for to be sure the diver will be OK, and how to supervise the open water dive itself--even though the diver has not been trained in any of this, the odds are very good that nothing bad will happen. And if you like to play the odds, go for it! After all, it's not your life that's at risk, is it?

Now, if this calamity does happen and the diver's family decides to sue you for not supervising properly, you may take a bit of a financial hit, but I am sure it would be worth it.