Tobermory - Diving Fatality

[FreeFloat]

I hate to break it to you all but Diving is as a cheap safe thrill for the masses

You all act like it's a trip to the moon with a Mar's landing on the side............... Get over yourselves.........

I'm not trying to say I or anyone else is necessarily a superior diver, by any means. Hey man, if you have your fun by diving with a garden hose with a rock tied to your waist, more power to you.

What I object to most, is that dive training by some agencies focuses exclusively on how much fun can be had without any effort needed by the student, and suggests that "anyone" can dive - it's (apparently) easier than falling off a log.

Skills? Why bother? We have new hi-tech equipment for that doncha know (think H.U.B., Air2). And there's all sorts of neat-o goodies on retractors to hang from your dozen stainless D rings. And no worries about buddies, this is the Me society so of course there's always a DM handy to hold your hand, and if you don't like it you can always sue.

Sheesh.

 

[d33ps1x]

I hate to break it to you all but Diving is as a cheap safe thrill for the masses

You all act like it's a trip to the moon with a Mar's landing on the side...Get over yourselves...

A prime example of training being a must would be the rediculous guided cave dives they do in Mexico all the time for open water divers. If your guide dies of natural causes back in the cave and you have been lollygagging along for the ride looking at the pretty decorations you might as well be on the Moon or Mars for that matter. You can probably kiss your a$$ goodbye in that nifty little aluminum 80 they strapped on you. Lots of fools leave their common sense hat at home when they sign up for these dives on a daily basis. The large death rates in those caves for untrained divers speaks volumes as to the importance of good training.

Like I said the training is to lessen the risks but there really are two types of divers and that's just fine with me anyways.

To each their own, provided no one expects anyone to risk their life for any body recoveries if the loved ones actually EXPECT a burial. The risk takers can lay in the watery grave they dug for themselves. That seems fair enough to me.

Off to gas up my rocket for another trip to the moon and back.

 

[Tom R]

Right on Warren

Since this is a divers death discussion, I wonder who the idiot instructor or charter operators are who have been letting single tank divers on air bounce dive the Jodrey, now there a death wish waiting to happen. The poorly Trained and Skilled recreational divers are becoming poorly skilled instructors, cave and technical divers.

Mr A

The attitude displayed there is one of money, charter operators in that area feel if they don't do it others will so lets make the quick buck here.

 

[divedude]

But isn't it OK for some of us to aspire to the finesse and perfection that others don't feel the need to achieve?

Steve (Freeflow Divers Niagara).

YES it is great to aspire to do the best you can do...........

We all have seen diver that need more work on skills.....
But not on of us was born a diver, not me or even Mr. Cousteau.
Some people just want to jump in and go look at a wreck or a reef or just the pretty fish. Most people only dive 5 or 6 times a year.
BUT... What bothers me most is the attitude of some that only their training is the best and some people shouldn't dive.
Most of the people who have the attitude have only been diving a short time.

When I started Chartering 99% of divers came with 2 AL 80's or 2 steel 72's and dove all the same wrecks we still dive today. No one had pony bottles, doubles, stage bottles, duel bladder BC's, lift bags, reels, nitrox, or all the rest of the gear you all need to dive with today. When divers got in the water 10 years ago all that was left on the boat was empty gear bags and some basic save a dive kits.............. All came back safely and had fun

Now when people are in the water I look around the boat and I have enough gear left on board to outfit 10 more divers.

WHY.....................

Because stores, instructors and gear manufacturer's are telling you that in order for you to be "safe" and a better diver you need all this "stuff" to dive properly, and people suck it up and the stores, instructors and gear manufacturer's make money.

I have had so many people in the last couple of years that need help to stand up and move because they have so much gear and long hoses and stuff that I'm not even sure what the heck it's for. Then they hit the water and flop around trying to find this hose and that computer. Man I would quit diving if I had to dive with all that........... Thank god I don't. Why the heck do people need 3 computers and 2 tanks a pony with 50% O2 and a stage bottle to dive to 75 feet for 30 minutes.


YES it is great to aspire to do the best you can do...........

To me, a skill is being to hang upside down at 20 feet with perfect buoyancy and laugh at all the people hanging on for dear life to the mooring line 30 feet away with 200 lbs of gear that they didn't need.

Diving is fun and the underwater world is beautiful and you can never know what is next. I never want to know what I'm diving on when I dive in other places or on reefs. Part of the fun and mystic of diving is exploring and the sense of adventure!

OK I'm Done ranting, I'm going to grab my 50 cf tank now with my old back pack single reg. and go diving in my back yard............... with all this rain it's about 20 feet deep now..............see ya

 

[Tom R]

I have had so many people in the last couple of years that need help to stand up and move because they have so much gear and long hoses and stuff that I'm not even sure what the heck it's for. Then they hit the water and flop around trying to find this hose and that computer. Man I would quit diving if I had to dive with all that........... Thank god I don't. Why the heck do people need 3 computers and 2 tanks a pony with 50% O2 and a stage bottle to dive to 75 feet for 30 minutes.

To do this dive safely all one needs is one tank of nitrox, a like minded buddy do the dive on thirds, and you should get at least 40 mins on a 80.

 

[FreeFloat]

Ya know, all those people strapping on "200 lbs of gear" are forgetting a very basic Hogarthian principle.........

"Take only what you need, and don't take anything you DON'T need"

 

[FreeFloat]

Oh yeah and that goes sorta hand in hand with something a DIR instructor told me once:

"Never substitute EQUIPMENT for SKILL"





OK I'm ignoring this thread now too.

 

[scubagirl15]

This thread just reinforces something I've always been amazed by: how people jump into the unknown without a care in the world about what exactly they're jumping into. I've seen OW students on checkout dives swim off by themselves into the murky distance...right into the middle of the St Lawrence River. WTF? Do these folks have no sense of self-preservation?

It's like FreeFloat's signature says: You just don't know what it is that you don't know. For me, therein lies the crux: there are those out there taking risks who don't even know that they are. Yes there are elitist divers out there who would like to preserve the sport for their exclusive enjoyment; on the other hand, surely there's something to be said for having a clue about the situation you're about to put yourself into rather than just winging it?

 

[Scuba_Steve]

YES it is great to aspire to do the best you can do...........

When I started Chartering 99% of divers came with 2 AL 80's or 2 steel 72's and dove all the same wrecks we still dive today. No one had pony bottles, doubles, stage bottles, duel bladder BC's, lift bags, reels, nitrox, or all the rest of the gear you all need to dive with today. When divers got in the water 10 years ago all that was left on the boat was empty gear bags and some basic save a dive kits.............. All came back safely and had fun

Now when people are in the water I look around the boat and I have enough gear left on board to outfit 10 more divers.

WHY.....................

Because stores, instructors and gear manufacturer's are telling you that in order for you to be "safe" and a better diver you need all this "stuff" to dive properly, and people suck it up and the stores, instructors and gear manufacturer's make money.

I have had so many people in the last couple of years that need help to stand up and move because they have so much gear and long hoses and stuff that I'm not even sure what the heck it's for. Then they hit the water and flop around trying to find this hose and that computer. Man I would quit diving if I had to dive with all that........... Thank god I don't. Why the heck do people need 3 computers and 2 tanks a pony with 50% O2 and a stage bottle to dive to 75 feet for 30 minutes.

I agree 100% with you. I've also heard you say this before, by the way. As a matter of fact, it was 2 years ago while we were on your boat! (And I think this year as well.)

Hehhehe, I personally love it when you say this stuff, as so much of it is true. I am also always open enough to listen to what selected people are saying, so I can use it to my benefit.

Double tank and long hose aside.............My doubles don't take up any more room than 2 singles, plus it's easier to be lazy about not switching tanks between dives I stand in the gear for about 20 seconds before flopping in. I can live with that.

Long hose.......we'll it's there for a reason, and I practice using it on at least half of my dives, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

No stages etc required for a 75ft 30min dive. I totally agree. What an annoying task loader for no good reason.

Sure I have a reel, lift bag, extra mask etc on every dive. You don't see them because they're stowed away in pockets. There's no "gear issue" there. I'm not losing or flailing that stuff around either. Have I EVER REALLY needed any of this "additional" gear?

Nope.

I hear ya Jim, and I pretty much agree with you on a lot of these points. But you have to see the other side of it too.

Steve

 

[Groundhog246]

I hear ya Jim and don't entirely disagree, BUT. I also sail and a good friend pointed out once that while you might regret the $ spent on a piece of safety gear that you never used, you'll regret more the piece of gear you don't have when you need it. Take flares as an example, you've got some. I'll bet I've got more. I know a lady who sails and never leaves the dock with less than about $1200 worth, yep I typed that right. She was once on a boat delivery crew and they ended up on a reef. The legally required dozen flares didn't take long to shoot and attracted no attention (all they had were the 12G shells and launcher which IMHO are pretty useless). Among her "collection" are several parachute flares (@ $100 each). When fired they reach over 1000 foot altitude and take in excess of 30 seconds to descend, vs about 250 to 300 feet for a 12G shell that takes less than 10 seconds up and down. Has she needed them since, no, will she keep carrying them, yes. For myself, along with more than the legally required flares, my PFD, which I wear regularly when the weather blows up or I'm single handing, set me back $250. I could meet the regulations spending a lot less, but what I bought is much more comfy, so I'm more inclined to wear it when I should. Many consider it a waste of $$, I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

Now some divers do carry way more than is needed. For myself, this year I bought a 30cf bottle and a reg and I have been carrying on dives exceeding 60 feet. Needed it yet? No. Will I keep carrying it? Yes, unless of course I start diving doubles. Just knowing it's there has greatly reduced my stress level, which has slowed my breathing and lets me stay longer and enjoy the dive more. And once I got the rigging correct for me, I really don't notice it's there.