too deep to resurface?

[Keith.M]

So much for the buddy system, RIP

Ever hear of sarcasm?

 

[eelnoraa]

...We were both checking out critters on a large wall and eventually due to New England's lovely viz, became separated at roughly 70 ft. (he turned a corner and was gone, even though I looked for him, shined my lights, etc...).
...

Being 70ft apart before you noticed you were separated, IMO, is a bigger issue. But I agree with other, if you agree on a buggy separation protocol, you should follow. Rec dive by definition means no deco, safety stop is optional. So spend 1 minutes looking around, then from 70ft to surface should take 2.5 minutes. I would also shoot my SMB when I start ascent as well, so if my buddy is on surface already, he would know where I am coming up.

 

[jboneng]

I don't see any problems with a direct ascent from 20 meter as long as you are within the NDL and have a safe ascent rate, and when you agree to a protocol, you stick to the protocol, If you are insecure about a free ascent from 20 meters, an another protocol should have been agreed upon and implemented. If I was to break the protocol in the same manner you did there, I would have been greeted on the surface by a Westland Sea King helicopter.
[h=1][/h]

 

[OtherHalf]

too many variables. you did poor pre-dive brief, there is a need to better specify separation protocols, and how to reconnect at depth. I agree on poor buddy protocols comment, but sympathize on how easy it is to get separated at depth with limited visibility. Whether to surface or not would depend on my perception of my buddy's comfort level. I once lost my wife when one of her integrated weight pouches fell out while I was tying on our dive flag. I knew she would likely be a little panicky at the surface, so I came up before going back down to get her weights. She wasn't sure why she had surfaced, and I was only at 30' for about 2 minutes. Easy decision. I'd have done the same thing for any buddy if I thought they had shot up from a lost weight. If they just wandered off, I'd take my safety stop. But again, discussing this beforehand is important. it should be part of a buddy plan.

Generally speaking, if I've been down for more than 4-5 minutes, I'm doing a safety stop. Puts my time to surface at about 5-6 minutes. And I would discuss that with my partner beforehand. Or discuss a plan to carry-on with the dive as usual. Rather buddy dependent. But again, there are situations underwater that would change my plan. Lost weights or an observed uncontrolled ascent would almost certainly cause me to skip my stop so I could help administer aid, or pull my buddy back down...

 

[Storker]

Now, at the beginning of the dive we both said that we should surface if we got separated, the problem is that I was at 70ft and didn't feel comfortable popping up at that depth. I slowly made my way back to the area where we started, made a safety stop at 15 ft, and surfaced. We eventually found each other, but he seemed pretty agitated that I didn't pop up right away. I told him I wasn't comfortable doing that at that depth, and he seemed to think it was ok...

If I were your buddy, I'd be "agitated", too. You (both) agreed on a buddy separation procedure, but you (specifically) didn't follow that procedure. As far as he knew, he was safe on the surface, you were not, and you didn't show up like you had agreed on. If my buddy goes missing like that, I'm getting out of the water to get my phone and call emergency services ASAP. And if I find out that my elevated BP and my unnecessary emergency call are caused by him just not feeling like following the plan and procedures we agreed on, I'd probably be a bit... agitated. Or, rather, quite pi$$ed off.

Plan the dive, dive the plan. If someone goes missing underwater due to a problem, it can be just a few minutes between "rescued and brought to the hospital" and "found dead". And, like others have said, as long as you're within ND limits, you can go straight to the surface with a very acceptable risk of getting bent. That's the point with ND limits.

---------- Post added November 17th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ----------

poor pre-dive brief, there is a need to better specify separation protocols, and how to reconnect at depth.

My take on that is that unless specifically discussed and agreed otherwise, we're following what we were taught during OW class: Search for one minute, then surface.


---------- Post added November 17th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ----------

My question is- Is it anyway safe to pop up for a minute and take a look for his bubbles at that depth?

In case of a lost buddy, you're not "popping up" to "take a look for his bubbles". You surface according to agreed procedure, and if he doesn't, you get your a$$ ashore ASAP and call for rescue because you have a missing diver situation.

 

[Remy B.]

What is the problem surfacing from 70ft and doing your safety stop on the way up ?, were you diving without DC ??

 

[divad]

If I were your buddy, I'd be "agitated", too. You (both) agreed on a buddy separation procedure, but you (specifically) didn't follow that procedure. As far as he knew, he was safe on the surface, you were not, and you didn't show up like you had agreed on. If my buddy goes missing like that, I'm getting out of the water to get my phone and call emergency services ASAP. And if I find out that my elevated BP and my unnecessary emergency call are caused by him just not feeling like following the plan and procedures we agreed on, I'd probably be a bit... agitated. Or, rather, quite pi$$ed off.



In case of a lost buddy, you're not "popping up" to "take a look for his bubbles". You surface according to agreed procedure, and if he doesn't, you get your a$$ ashore ASAP and call for rescue because you have a missing diver situation.

You probably can't imagine the bill for that sort of hysterical reaction.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Ever hear of sarcasm?

The fact that we even have to discuss this scenario, shows how incredibly weak the buddy system is within the context of simple recreational diving. A far safer dive plan is to say "hey we will dive together unless we get separated, if that happens, don't worry, I won't go looking for you". Safer AND ethical...

Now 70 feet is too deep to dive buddies and follow a basic recreational protocol???

 

[Bred22]

The whole point in recreational diving is that you can make a direct SAFE accent at any point in the dive. Even a safety stop is optional I agree it should always be done when possible but in a potential dangerous situation your main objective should be to follow protocol. A good system is the standard lost buddy system surcharge for 1 minuet then surface. However as stated above anything you agreed on before the dive should be kept to.

However this his is a good learning experience and hopefully you and your buddy will plan with the depth in mind and agree on a system that works for you!

---------- Post added November 17th, 2014 at 07:48 PM ----------

The whole point in recreational diving is that you can make a direct SAFE accent at any point in the dive. Even a safety stop is optional I agree it should always be done when possible but in a potential dangerous situation your main objective should be to follow protocol. A good system is the standard lost buddy system surcharge for 1 minuet then surface then look for 1 more minuet then get out the water and start to think about contacting emergency services. It might sound like overkill but better to be safe then sorry. However as stated above anything you agreed on before the dive should be kept to.

this is a good learning experience and hopefully you and your buddy will plan with the depth in mind and agree on a system that works for you!

 

[jboneng]

You probably can't imagine the bill for that sort of hysterical reaction.

1) When considering calling for a rescue team, the cost shouldn't be a factor
2) It is the dive operational leader's responsibility to make the emergency call, if there is an emergency and he/she does not make the call, it is his/her a$$ on the line, if the emergency call was made because the diver was stupid and breached the protocol, then it is the divers a$$ on the line.
3) Universal healthcare makes it easy to not think about the costs when someones life might be at stake, and will only factor in if severe neglect by the diver or the dive operational leader is proven (and often, not even then).