Training Question.

[Diver0001]

pentiumchic once bubbled...
I was sitting here reading some old posts about "Who you would dive with".A lot of people stated they wouldn't dive with anyone without diver rescue training.I got to thinking what do you consider "training".Here's my standing.My husband is going through padi training all the way to Dive Master.His instructor humors me a lot and lets me go to his classes with him and I read all the books he brings home.But I unlike hubby am not paying for the certs/cards.Would you still consider that I was still getting said training even though I'm not getting the certs?

Jen

Well....

Jimi Hendrix taught himself to play guitar (and left-handed on a right-handed guitar no less). If that's possible then someone can teach themselves new dive skills. It's not rocket science.

Then again making a mistake on the guitar isn't going to get you hurt either.......

I think it really depends on what you're trying to learn and how much experience you have to start with. I don't know if I'm typical but much of what I've learned about diving I've learned through experience. That is *after* I had a foundation to build on.

And learning some things alone is just dumb. Deco-diving for example. And teaching yourself cave or wreck diving is Darwin-dumb. So it depends on what it is.....

As for Rescue, I would recommend taking the class. I don't think you can do "roll yer own" on the Rescue course. You'll miss too much.

R..

 

[Lead_carrier]

I agree with you Mike that rescue training is nice but I saw with my own eyes that the system breaks down way too much. Almost a year after I got certified I was working at a dive shop and a rescue course was being put together. Of course, being the newbie of the bunch I wanted to hang back a bit to make sure I didn't make too much of a fool of myself. Was I ever surprised. One student was AOW working on becoming DM couldn't put his gear together correctly. He put his tank on his BC backwards, not once but twice, and then insisted that he was taught that way. Another student wouldn't do the searche patterns because it was too dark and the vis wasn't very good.

The worst part of the deal? The instructor signed them off because he didn't get paid for them unless they passed. I lost a lot of respect for that instructor that day. So unfortunately, Rescue or any other level is getting to be like OW. Just because you're certified doesn't mean you're trained.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Lead_carrier once bubbled...
So unfortunately, Rescue or any other level is getting to be like OW. Just because you're certified doesn't mean you're trained.

Yes, and I don't know what the answer is other than to support the good and point out the bad. Getting the training may not get it done but not getting the training certainly won't.

In the last class we ran we had some referal students. We try to give them some insight into how to pick an instructor in the hopes that they find a good one to finish up with. The other day one of the students was it to pay her balance and piuck up her paper work. I asked if she had done any research into instructors where she was going. She told me that she hadn't and that instructors were a dime a dozen where she was going. I told her she was right. Like they say you can lead a horse to water... If a student doesn't know that's one thing but in this case the student has made a choice to go with anyone just to get a card. I did what I could and I hope she doesn't learn the hard way but I'll be able to sleep ok anyway. As long as people continue to reward a poor system and lousy instructors there won't be a reason to offer anything else. Kind of like the Roman empire, canceled for lack of interest.

 

[TCDiver1]

Lead_carrier once bubbled...

The worst part of the deal? The instructor signed them off because he didn't get paid for them unless they passed. I lost a lot of respect for that instructor that day. So unfortunately, Rescue or any other level is getting to be like OW. Just because you're certified doesn't mean you're trained.

No one in your example is taking responsibility for themselves and their respective responsiblities.

The student for not understanding basic diving concepts or proceeding to more advanced training without the proper skill set to start with.

The instructor for allowing it to happen and certifying students who don't meet the most basic of established standards.

The LDS for establishing policies which encourage a mass production mentality without proper quality control.

Three strikes and your out. Pretty sad senario.

 

[scubaredneck]

pentiumchic,

I have to agree with the various posters who pointed out that good training is far more than just "book learning". It involves skill development and mastery. Just sitting in on your hubby's classes isn't enough to consider yourself to have been trained. If that's all it took then PADI would probably start cert'ing people over the 'net.

I will agree with you that the amount of skill a diver posses may has little to do with how many c-cards they have collected. I have a good friend (who got me into diving) who has close to (if not over) 1000 dives and yet he has only an OW card. Why? He doesn't want to pay for more training when he can learn the stuff on his own. While I don't necessarily endorse his view, my point is that skill development can happen in many contexts, often outside a formal training setting. However, without the skill development, even formal training is only of so much value.

Remember, a good diver is always learning.

 

[MASS-Diver]

Around here (MA/NE) alot of charter boats require AOW or the equivalent to do alot of dives (including not just deep dives, but, "advanced" dives, like scallop diving).

But, aside from that angle , I think if you have a good instructor training is always worth while, then you can grow and practice own your own.

Learning from other people's mistakes is key in this sport (espically fatal errors). The divers I know that are "self-taught" have lots of close call stories.

 

[raybo]

Rescue class, some of the in water stuff was a lot more than I expected.

The class/video wasn't much different than some of the other rescue/safety classed I've taken. How to deal with panic, first aid, accident management etc.

But getting through the unconcious/non-breathing victim is a physical challenge.

Even if you don't get certified, that's one you can't just watch & read about.

Whether you Put Another Dollar In or not, you need to experience that one first hand to really aprreciate it.

IMHO, anyway...

 

[victoriawtx]

of how well you have internalized the information. Like many things, scuba diving is best learned through experience. (besides the initial basic understanding of the theory).

I have known many people that I think are absolutely brilliant (my father!) and yet have no 'degree'. And then I have seen people here at the university that are supposedly the best and the brightest in their field, and yet they are lucky to figure out the elevator.

It is admirable of you to take the initiative to learn about rescue diving. I hope too also someday. Everything you are learning is great, and can only be used to your advantage.

 

[Zept]

pentiumchic said...
Would you still consider that I was still getting said training even though I'm not getting the certs?

IMO there is a world of difference between book learning and experience. To give you an example, I scored 50/50 on my Rescue test. However, I failed one of the practical sessions and had to go back and repeat it. Being good at studying does not (unfortunately) mean I'm good in the water.

If you aren't doing all the dives for the courses, I don't think you can say you've had the training.


Zept

 

[pentiumchic]

When I said the instucter let me sit in the classes I ment the in water classes too.My husband has taken combat life saver classes also.Believe it or not he is a very very good teacher.Just with teaching me from that he saved my sons life.At 6 month choking on a lifesaver of all things.I remember what hubby taught me.So out came the lifesaver.After the water classes and I've watched the instructer run the people through what your to do.Him and I take the extra tank we got for after the class and run me through the moves.Don't get me wrong I will get the cards but for now at least I know I'm a better diver for the learning.And I know my dive buddy will not get hurt cause I'm an idiot.Kinda like to keep him around a while longer.
The instructer also likes to teach and he runs me through some of it himself.I so can not say enough good things Cynthia Cunningham and Ray Frey at Kai Ohana.Ray just got PADI to ok a Kayak diving specialty.I also said all cards I get would be from them.So can see why he'd want me to learn it.

Jen