Training... which is worse? What would be better?

[radagalf]

in a manner of speaking?

No, I am not in for anyone one/shop/agency just pushing the plastic. But I do think that getting some plastic is just a "bonus" (for lack of a better term) to increasing your diving knowledge and skills in the presence of someone who is more qualified than you.

I also am a firm believer in diving, diving, diving, and practice makes perfect. So diving outside of the courses is mandatory too to rethink about what you've learned and to apply it to a variety of different situations. Plus learning from others always has its advantages, either they've learnt throguh experiences (the hard way like me most often), or through talking to others more experienced than them!!!

So, as to all the bickering (you all sound like the Bicker Brothers sometimes) that goes on scubaboards everywhere about what is better, the only answer I have is anyone who thinks anyONE of the options is the best is wrong. The more diverse experiences you have, either learning or practicing, can only help to make you better.

 

[AquaTec]

You need to apply # 2 to #1 then you will have a good situation.

I think the plastic is important, but the plastic need to mean something.


Its like having 50 gold visas in your pocket, but only two of them have any room to buy a burger on.


the organizations need to change and start backing up the cards. The problem with #2 is that only those who dive with you truely know your skill level. we need to be able to travel and pull out our AOW card and have it really mean something, and then we need to have the skills to back it up

 

[Jonathan]

It's a shame you look at "equipment speciality" that way cpalerm - but then it probably comes down to the instructor.

I thought this one was very worth while - I did not have my usual instructor but the guy who taught him. He's be around the block a bit and had loads of stuff to play with an look at.

Cut up regs, tanks, bc's etc so you could have a real good look at how they work - these were all of course things that had failed so we could see why.

Also had a number of items from over the years so we could see the evolution of equipment - masks, bc's, tanks & regs.

A very enjoyable and informative 2 evenings one winter - and yes I did get a bit of plastic!

I would have to agree though getting a bit of plastic to be shown how to use your computer is a bit over the top - should be part of the service, that is if they sold it to you!

Jonathan

 

[Cave Diver]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

...well don't feel too bad.... looks like a lot of folks are.

Nope, not metaphorically challenged, just being facetious about the fact that if I truly had a choice, I would prefer to be out doing practically ANY kind of diving, rather than sitting on shore debating which kind is best.

NetDoc once bubbled...
No, it's not the agency's fault and it's not the instructors fault. The fault lies squarely on the diver who is too lazy to improve himself. The fault lies with the diver who only sees it as a piece of plastic and so only meets the bare minimum to pass the class. It's the personal responsibility of EACH AND EVERY DIVER for how they dive. I can only be responsible for the example I set.

So escape the faulty logic that blames society for the criminal's misbehavior. Step around the convoluted connivings that tell us that America is responsible for the attack on the World Trade Center. Reject the notion that the flight school in Florida was to blame either... and leave poor 'ol Clinton out of it too.

A M E N !!!!!

 

[JamesK]

NetDoc once bubbled...
and leave poor 'ol Clinton out of it too.

I totally agreed with you, until you made the above statement. I like bashing Clinton. I would love to tie him into some sort of PADI conspiracy, I just can't fin any way to do it.

Signed,
Scubaboards Evil Right Wing Clinton Bashin Hate Monger.




As for the original post, I beleive in just enough plastic to be allowed to do the dives I want to do, and more than enough mentoring and training to be able to do them safely.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

The very way the question is worded encourages an answer of #2. It places option on in a negative light and since there is only one other option listed that must be the correct option.

Option two makes a bad assumption. The people doing the mentoring have the proper skills to do so. As has been discussed at length around here there are plenty of people out there who will train and mentor new divers and simply propogate their own bad habits.

TwoBit

 

[The Chairman]

I was just pointing out that Americans tend to eschew personal responsibility and lean more towards a corporate liability instead. Flip Wilson made fun of this with his "Da debble made me do it" line. Even if the "debble" is Clinton, he has nothing to do with the way you choose to dive (or die).

 

[dcostanza]

Good morning,
I agree with Cave Diver. One of the BIGGEST frustrations I have is that there are a lot of people in my area "carrying plastic" that would rather discuss the zen-like element of diving than actually get wet. It is as if they got their cards for "bragging rights" and that is the extent of their diving activity. I understand I'm making a generality; however, it is frustrating to me because I am constantly looking for dive buddies that share the same passion and drive to not only dive but to improve ones skills. It appears to me that many who consider themselves "divers" use any excuse not to go.

I have signed up for quite a lot of classes at the LDS with the sole goal of expanding my knowledge base, not to flash the pretty colorful pieces of plastic. Personally, I consider diving as a perpetual education not one that ends when a particular class is over and the pretty cards are given. Granted, you need a c-card to get into new places or for air fills and I'm referring to those that collect cards beyond what is required to get wet. Where the card becomes the driving motivation instead of the knowledge.

As a final thought, the quest for C-cards remind me of when I owned a martial arts school. Many students were solely focused with the color of their belts with the "pinnacle" to earn the right to wear a black belt around their waist. Not realizing that the belt was merely a piece of cloth and nothing else. The real learning begain AFTER earning the coveted rank. (Warning...More generalization forthcoming) As a culture, it appears that we need that belt, c-card,diploma,certifications,etc. as a validation to others that we have a certain degree of knowledge, as if by merely carrying the card we are granted the knowledge contained within and without it, well, we are mere mortals. As if by having reached a certain level and carrying a piece of plastic we feel better about ourselves... moreso than the knowledge we gained. For some its all about the number of "trophies" one acquires instead of the foundation of knowledge which should be the real driving force.

I'll get off my soapbox now... Basking in the knowledge that there are only two more days left in my surface interval....

Best Regards
Don Costanza

 

[Cave Diver]

dcostanza once bubbled...
Good morning,
I agree with Cave Diver. One of the BIGGEST frustrations I have is that there are a lot of people in my area "carrying plastic" that would rather discuss the zen-like element of diving than actually get wet. It is as if they got their cards for "bragging rights" and that is the extent of their diving activity. I understand I'm making a generality; however, it is frustrating to me because I am constantly looking for dive buddies that share the same passion and drive to not only dive but to improve ones skills. It appears to me that many who consider themselves "divers" use any excuse not to go.

I have signed up for quite a lot of classes at the LDS with the sole goal of expanding my knowledge base, not to flash the pretty colorful pieces of plastic. Personally, I consider diving as a perpetual education not one that ends when a particular class is over and the pretty cards are given...

...I'll get off my soapbox now... Basking in the knowledge that there are only two more days left in my surface interval....

Indeed!

I have gotten to the point where I try to do both. My last two diving trips have also been training sessions where I took another class and got yet another c-card. To me, the plastic is a means to an end. I eventually plan to (and am now just a step away from) taking Trimix training. When I go diving, I try to learn something. The last two trips I got c-cards out of, as well as had a great time diving. My local mudpuddles allow me to work on the skills I already learnt, and sometimes share that with others who are just starting their interest in diving.

But, the whole point is... Let's Get Wet!

 

[JamesK]

NetDoc once bubbled...
Even if the "debble" is Clinton, he has nothing to do with the way you choose to dive (or die).

Well, if we are talking about Bill, the he just might be the debble. If we are about Hitlary, then she is much much worse than anything the debble could conjure! lol...


Ok, how can I get this back on diving.... lol.....