Trim weights

[seabass]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

trim weights are really training wheels and as such degrade your performance...

Of course this is all just my opinion... but then as usual... I am right.

Maybe we are arguing the semantics of trim weights, but I don't see how this statement is necessarily true for all people with wildly different body types. Moving the tank is equivalent to not moving the tank and adding some amount of trim weights. If the amount of additional weight required is higher than can be obtained by a reasonable shift in the tank, then why wouldn't trim weights be acceptable?

To me trim weights are any additional weights (p,v or whatever) specifically distributed around the body to assist with trim.

I dive with no ditchable weight in fresh water (4 pounds in salt). To have stable trim I have to have the tank a ridiculous (but doable) amount above my head. I could imagine someone with a similar body type to me, but with more dense legs that would not be able to use the tank to shift their trim enough. They would then have to remove the single tank adapter (5 pounds) and put on trim weights and some on a weight belt. I am very close to having to do this, luckily I don't. However would the weights really be training wheels in this case?

 

[Uncle Pug]

seabass once bubbled...
However would the weights really be training wheels in this case?

You might want to work through the though process I outlined in my post above to determine what the [real] problem(s) might be... if there is a problem... often times... there isn't and additional equipment just creates one.

Some things in diving are paradoxical... and sometimes folks who have *heavy* feet don't... they just think they do.

Without all the extra doo-dads you might want to try some experiments in trim control... buoyancy control is another issue and neutral buoyancy is something that you will need to achieve to do this.

In fairly shallow water (10~15') get neutral off the bottom and attempt to get horizontal in the water... quit waving your hands!... that is a chief contributor to imbalance!!! You think you need to do it but you don't. Also quit finning. Allow you body to assume whatever trim it will. Now attempt to get into a different trim attitude (without any hand or foot finning) just by moving your body, arching your back, pulling your legs up behind or straightening them out. Play with this for a while. If you can get into what you think passes for a stable position then look down between your legs directly behind you... if this causes you to go over onto your head then you are head heavy.

Many times divers who are head heavy swim head up instinctively to keep themselves from going over onto their head… and they think that they are foot heavy when just the opposite is really the case. By moving weights forward, either with the tank or trim weights, they actually exacerbate the problem. If you think that you are foot heavy... move some weight back toward your feet (lower the tank!) and then try the head looking between the knees backward trick.

Now if you can't or won't *waste* a few tanks of tire filler to play with and practice finding the solution to poor trim then Uncle Pug cannot help you.

 

[GP]

I'm going to try out your tips tomorrow UP with my Ranger and see what happens.

 

[Uncle Pug]

GP once bubbled...
I'm going to try out your tips tomorrow UP with my Ranger and see what happens.

...there is a special maneuver just for Ranger owners to achive excellent trim.

But it can be done... even without this special maneuver.

 

[GP]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

...there is a special maneuver just for Ranger owners to achive excellent trim.

But it can be done... even without this special maneuver.

Hmm...you wouldn't happen to be referring to the Ranger-->Ebay-->BP/Wing Maneuver now would you?ut: I'll be doing that little maneuver when I can afford it. For now I'll try to make do without.

 

[GP]

GP once bubbled...
For now I'll try to make do without.

And without the use of training wheels!ut:

 

[PA/NJdiver]

I have had similar problems with trim. After many dives in the water to try different adjustments & getting out & changing things, I finally got it.

When I would be horizontal and not moving, I would slowly start to tip onto my head. The tank positioning was adjusted, and I still tipped forward. We also tried adjusting the weights - using a v weight & no weight belt, using just a weight belt, etc. At the suggestion of the wonderful Andrew G., he told me to try using an al. backplate instead of the ss backplate I had been using. Low and behold, it worked. I still had to make some minor adjustments with tank positioning & now I have to wear a weightbelt, but I don't tip.

Stacey

 

[MikeS]

I use weights in the non-ditchable back pockets of my Balance BC as well as ankle weights rapped around the tank valve.

While I think that a BB and wings provides more adjustability, that’s why I am going to get one when the budget allows, I also think that with enough experience and practice you could achieve good buoyancy and trim with rocks duct tapped to your body and a garbage bag for a bladder (two-ply for redundancy).

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Well... it has to do with the way you hold your body. The u/w world is dynamic and just trimming yourself with static weights will never really solve the ever changing problem of being trimmed out. But if you learn how to trim yourself using body *english* then you will be able to handle the environmental imbalances.

But Uncle Pug, is there not an optimal starting point from which to use body *english*, and are not trim weights a valid way to get to that point? Based on your earlier advice I adjusted “trim weights” so that I can float horizontally without movement. Incidentally, the same weighting also allows be to float vertically. Was this wrong?

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

trim weights are really training wheels and as such degrade your performance...

I have to respectfully disagree here based on the above reasoning.

Mike

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeS once bubbled...
I have to respectfully disagree here based on the above reasoning.

You don't have to be respectful to disagree with me Mike

Anyway... now that you know how correct trim feels go ahead and take the training wheels off and see if you can get the feeling back without them.

Try it anyway.... even though you know you can't possibly do it.

 

[ERP]

UP,

Surely trim weights are just a way to redistribute some of the weight your carrying.

I carry about 1/3 of my weight in the trim pockets at the back of my balance BC, how is this any different to using a 6lb SS backplate and using a large LP cylinder?

The other thing is that the integrated weight systems on a lot of the BC's I've seen (including the balance) tends to push all the weight to the front of the body, putting some of the weight towards the back to correct this imbalance just seems like a smart move.

Now I don't think that you should necessarilly be relying on the weight distribution for appropriate trim, but I can't see how using trim pockets is a bad thing.