The thread is not only for OP- there are other divers with similar dilemmas.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk HD
Unrest? Really?!?
- Thread starter DenaGirl
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
The thread is not only for OP- there are other divers with similar dilemmas.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk HD
From my side was related to trying to have an entry on the passport to save the losses. Just transiting with no stayover...
And in general i do not thinki am just defending the situation i advised her to cancel as it is unpredictable.... However from what i see around me its not bombing that i would fear of neither it is a risk of being kidnapped in or near the airport... All kidnapping was one near or on the way to st. Catherine where bus has to go mid sinai...
Reading news from 2005 or personal thoughts are more than welcoe, however keep in mind am living amid whats going on !
And in general i do not thinki am just defending the situation i advised her to cancel as it is unpredictable.... However from what i see around me its not bombing that i would fear of neither it is a risk of being kidnapped in or near the airport... All kidnapping was one near or on the way to st. Catherine where bus has to go mid sinai...
Reading news from 2005 or personal thoughts are more than welcoe, however keep in mind am living amid whats going on !
Okay I have to chime in on this one.
I lived through the 2011 revolution and its aftermath. I didn't read about it on the news, I lived and worked in Sharm right the way through it and although there was a huge amount of bloodshed and violence, it never once reached the tourist resorts - including Sharm, Dahab, El Qsir, Hurghada, El Gouna etc. etc. The fighting was, and still is, contained to certain districts of Cairo, Alexandria and Suez.
Regarding the violent attacks near the Egpytian / Israeli border in the town of Al-Arish - this has been a hotbed of extremist sentiment and violent attacks at the border since Israel was granted statehood. It's in Sinai, but a long way from Sharm and there is only one road, which is heavily policed with regular security checkpoints. You can safely ignore all incidents of violence in the North of Sinai.
Yes, there were terrorist attacks in Sharm, Dahab and Taba in 2004/5 - security has been increased on a massive scale since then and having seen this in operation, as a tourist you might not even see it, but unknowns and irregulars are stopped and thoroughly searched. As I've said before - there have been major terrorist attacks in other countries, notably America, the UK, France, Indonesia (Bali, not far from where I am now); this does not mean that you will be a likely victim of a terrorist attack in any of these countries, nor does it mean you will be bombed in Sharm El Sheikh.
I no longer live in Sharm, but I have been following the news very closely, and am in regular contact with some of my friends who are still there - it's business as usual, just like it was a month after Mubarak stepped down in Feb 2011. Back then, certain people referred to Egypt as a new Afghanistan, and nobody should go there, because they might be captured and beheaded as the whole country was in a state of war against the Capitalist west. This was, and remains, utter bollocks. The Egyptians are not fighting America and Europe, they are fighting themselves.
There has been a spate of kidnappings in the Sinai. These were tourists travelling independently with local guides, and not on the popular tourist transportation. They were easy targets for the Bedouin, who are more socio-politically motivated and have no interest in terrorism. They are an oppressed indigenous population of the Sinai desert, and they were making a point. No kidnapping could ever be described as pleasant, but they were served tea and barbecued goat and released unharmed and well looked after. The Bedouin are quite lovely people, actually; I knew a few, and they are not to be trifled with, but neither are they jihadists.
Anybody spouting crap about how a solo female traveller is going to be raped and murdered has no knowledge of the country, and has probably been watching the wrong news channel. Yes, there have been violent sexual attacks on women in Tahrier square and other hotspots. This is awful, but it's not going to happen to anybody passing through Cairo on the way to Sharm or Hurghada.
My major concern for holidaymakers to Egypt is the same as it was in the aftermath of the 2011 revolution. This is not that you will be bombed, shot, beheaded, mugged or raped, but that your holiday will be cancelled because of travel alerts issued by world governments. To a point, I see their point - the media is full of fighting and violence and I do not apportion any blame to people who cancel their holidays to Egypt because of the current crisis. I understand that the portrayal of the problems, and indeed the problems themselves, do not sit well with many peaceful family people and that's fine - there are plenty of places without a national civil crisis to visit with some excellent diving. Consider also that due to the massive drop in tourism over the last few years, the reefs and the wildlife are in better condition than they have been for many years. 35 Hammerheads at Jackson reef last summer... a population that has not been seen for 20 years!
The situation in the country, however, may well deteriorate. Last time it was Mubarak's regime vs. everybody. It was bloody, horrific, and violent. This time it's the people vs. the army vs. the Muslim Brotherhood and it's associated factions. I worry more than ever that this will precipitate civil war, and I speak as a foreigner who has read a lot more and has more knowledge of the Egyptian political crisis than most. My advice remains that if you should book a holiday to Egypt, make sure it comes with full insurance that will refund your money should the political situation deteriorate. Talk to your dive centre of choice and see what they will do about the situation - look at last minute bookings when you can be more certain of the current political situation and remember - so far the tourist resorts have not been affected.
There is some risk - but there is a risk associated with visiting Thailand, or Mexico, or Indonesia, or America, or France, or the Netherlands, or Norway, or Japan, or anywhere else in the world. Use your good judgement based on the facts, not what Fox News is spouting off as the truth. If you're worried and you don't want to go - then don't - nobody will hold it against you - but if you do want to go, make sure you are covered insurance wise, and monitor the situation carefully, from reliable sources.
Thanks for reading,
Crowley
I lived through the 2011 revolution and its aftermath. I didn't read about it on the news, I lived and worked in Sharm right the way through it and although there was a huge amount of bloodshed and violence, it never once reached the tourist resorts - including Sharm, Dahab, El Qsir, Hurghada, El Gouna etc. etc. The fighting was, and still is, contained to certain districts of Cairo, Alexandria and Suez.
Regarding the violent attacks near the Egpytian / Israeli border in the town of Al-Arish - this has been a hotbed of extremist sentiment and violent attacks at the border since Israel was granted statehood. It's in Sinai, but a long way from Sharm and there is only one road, which is heavily policed with regular security checkpoints. You can safely ignore all incidents of violence in the North of Sinai.
Yes, there were terrorist attacks in Sharm, Dahab and Taba in 2004/5 - security has been increased on a massive scale since then and having seen this in operation, as a tourist you might not even see it, but unknowns and irregulars are stopped and thoroughly searched. As I've said before - there have been major terrorist attacks in other countries, notably America, the UK, France, Indonesia (Bali, not far from where I am now); this does not mean that you will be a likely victim of a terrorist attack in any of these countries, nor does it mean you will be bombed in Sharm El Sheikh.
I no longer live in Sharm, but I have been following the news very closely, and am in regular contact with some of my friends who are still there - it's business as usual, just like it was a month after Mubarak stepped down in Feb 2011. Back then, certain people referred to Egypt as a new Afghanistan, and nobody should go there, because they might be captured and beheaded as the whole country was in a state of war against the Capitalist west. This was, and remains, utter bollocks. The Egyptians are not fighting America and Europe, they are fighting themselves.
There has been a spate of kidnappings in the Sinai. These were tourists travelling independently with local guides, and not on the popular tourist transportation. They were easy targets for the Bedouin, who are more socio-politically motivated and have no interest in terrorism. They are an oppressed indigenous population of the Sinai desert, and they were making a point. No kidnapping could ever be described as pleasant, but they were served tea and barbecued goat and released unharmed and well looked after. The Bedouin are quite lovely people, actually; I knew a few, and they are not to be trifled with, but neither are they jihadists.
Anybody spouting crap about how a solo female traveller is going to be raped and murdered has no knowledge of the country, and has probably been watching the wrong news channel. Yes, there have been violent sexual attacks on women in Tahrier square and other hotspots. This is awful, but it's not going to happen to anybody passing through Cairo on the way to Sharm or Hurghada.
My major concern for holidaymakers to Egypt is the same as it was in the aftermath of the 2011 revolution. This is not that you will be bombed, shot, beheaded, mugged or raped, but that your holiday will be cancelled because of travel alerts issued by world governments. To a point, I see their point - the media is full of fighting and violence and I do not apportion any blame to people who cancel their holidays to Egypt because of the current crisis. I understand that the portrayal of the problems, and indeed the problems themselves, do not sit well with many peaceful family people and that's fine - there are plenty of places without a national civil crisis to visit with some excellent diving. Consider also that due to the massive drop in tourism over the last few years, the reefs and the wildlife are in better condition than they have been for many years. 35 Hammerheads at Jackson reef last summer... a population that has not been seen for 20 years!
The situation in the country, however, may well deteriorate. Last time it was Mubarak's regime vs. everybody. It was bloody, horrific, and violent. This time it's the people vs. the army vs. the Muslim Brotherhood and it's associated factions. I worry more than ever that this will precipitate civil war, and I speak as a foreigner who has read a lot more and has more knowledge of the Egyptian political crisis than most. My advice remains that if you should book a holiday to Egypt, make sure it comes with full insurance that will refund your money should the political situation deteriorate. Talk to your dive centre of choice and see what they will do about the situation - look at last minute bookings when you can be more certain of the current political situation and remember - so far the tourist resorts have not been affected.
There is some risk - but there is a risk associated with visiting Thailand, or Mexico, or Indonesia, or America, or France, or the Netherlands, or Norway, or Japan, or anywhere else in the world. Use your good judgement based on the facts, not what Fox News is spouting off as the truth. If you're worried and you don't want to go - then don't - nobody will hold it against you - but if you do want to go, make sure you are covered insurance wise, and monitor the situation carefully, from reliable sources.
Thanks for reading,
Crowley
Doubler
Contributor
I have worked with the Egyptian Navy for over 20 years, mostly in Alexandria. Truth be told I always felt safer walking the streets of Alex than walking in Pioneer Square in Seattle. That being said it is just not safe to vacation there now. The situation is just too fluid. The people there want what we all want, a good job, plentiful food and a home for their family, all of which MB did not know how to provide. Thus the riots and the " Governmental Correction" as it was not a coup. Let the Egyptian people figure out what government they want and then vacation there. I plan on taking my wife to Luxor in the near future
Here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
I have no vested nor commercial interest in the Egyptian diving industry. I am not a "pro" and have no interest whatsoever in becoming one. I am just a UK based holiday diver/ travelling tourist who goes to the Red Sea resorts as an independent traveller 2-3 times a year. Over the years I have established friendships and keep in touch regularly with instructors and others out there.
1. Western recession. Tourists have traditionally been the "cash cows" that have kept the Egyptian dive industry afloat . Everything is relative, but the dive industry and ex pats don't appreciate how hard the prolonged economic recession in Europe is for people. The economies of Portugal, Greece, Spain and Ireland have suffered badly. Spain has terrible unemployment, especially amongst its young people. In the UK many workers have had extended pay freezes and their pension contributions and retirement ages have gone up. Inflation meanwhile remains doggedly at 3% meaning further cuts in disposible income. Air passenger duty in the UK went up significantly . If they can afford a holiday in the current austerity regime then people will consider their destination very carefully.
2. Egyptian civil unrest. The demonstrations and removal of Mubarak damaged Egyptian tourism very badly. Images of chaos and disorder were piped around the world. Thankfully the army chose note to fire or drive tanks at their own people (like China) and a brief experiment with democracy ensued. Morsi wasn't up to it and did not improve living standards for Egyptians. Whether he was prioritising an Islamist state to the detriment of other more pressing priorities is a matter of opinion. In a true democracy he would be voted out of office at the next election. Instead after 12 months we are back where we were again with chaotic protests and the US funded Egyptian army , together with the police, choosing to intervene with a military coup. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood leaders are either under arrest or being sought. I doubt that the US is bothered at the loss of an islamist regime, although Obama cannot use the words "military coup" as it is against US rules to fund armies who are going to carry one out. On this occasion the army did shoot and massacre 50 odd Muslim Brotherhood supporters.We have Egyptian v Egyptian v the army. Egypt remains a tinpot third world regime unable to govern itself or collect taxes, existing on bribes, corruption and backhanders and reliant on US and EU aid handouts. Without these handouts experts reckon it would be bust in 6 months. Its people remain poor,unable to get diesel and food prices are going up.
3. Prospects.
In the aftermath of the current disorder, the US and Australian Govts advised against travel to Egypt full stop. The UK Govt Foreign & Commonwealth Office advised Brits to go to the Red Sea resorts only or Cairo Airport as a transit. The dive industry is spouting that it is "business as usual" but UK tourists who had pre-booked don't have any choice do they? If they cancel their Red Sea holiday they won't get any refund whatsoever as the Govt says it is OK to travel. The acid test will be on advanced bookings and how many people choose to book in Egypt. As Crowley says, the images disturb UK families who think the whole Egyptian state is in chaos and that they may lose their hols should the situation deteriorate further. There will also be the moralists who won't give money to a state that overthrows its democratically elected Govt using military force, bangs up its leaders, pulls down its TV stations and massacres its own people. Personally if I was the type of person who sat behind wire at an all inclusive hotel compound in Sharm I would still go. I would also go to Dahab Town but very choosy who to venture inland there with as Bedouin crime is increasing. However excited talk of Sharia law,state beheadings and raping western women is nonsense and demonstrates xenophobia and ignorance.
However I think tourism/ diving will be further hit which is a shame as one in eight Egyptians work in tourism.
My associates reckon Dahab and Sharm are quiet . Probably combination of western recession, Ramadan and the fallout from the Mubarak removal. I fear worse may be to come.Brits will find "easier" destinations for hols.
I have no vested nor commercial interest in the Egyptian diving industry. I am not a "pro" and have no interest whatsoever in becoming one. I am just a UK based holiday diver/ travelling tourist who goes to the Red Sea resorts as an independent traveller 2-3 times a year. Over the years I have established friendships and keep in touch regularly with instructors and others out there.
1. Western recession. Tourists have traditionally been the "cash cows" that have kept the Egyptian dive industry afloat . Everything is relative, but the dive industry and ex pats don't appreciate how hard the prolonged economic recession in Europe is for people. The economies of Portugal, Greece, Spain and Ireland have suffered badly. Spain has terrible unemployment, especially amongst its young people. In the UK many workers have had extended pay freezes and their pension contributions and retirement ages have gone up. Inflation meanwhile remains doggedly at 3% meaning further cuts in disposible income. Air passenger duty in the UK went up significantly . If they can afford a holiday in the current austerity regime then people will consider their destination very carefully.
2. Egyptian civil unrest. The demonstrations and removal of Mubarak damaged Egyptian tourism very badly. Images of chaos and disorder were piped around the world. Thankfully the army chose note to fire or drive tanks at their own people (like China) and a brief experiment with democracy ensued. Morsi wasn't up to it and did not improve living standards for Egyptians. Whether he was prioritising an Islamist state to the detriment of other more pressing priorities is a matter of opinion. In a true democracy he would be voted out of office at the next election. Instead after 12 months we are back where we were again with chaotic protests and the US funded Egyptian army , together with the police, choosing to intervene with a military coup. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood leaders are either under arrest or being sought. I doubt that the US is bothered at the loss of an islamist regime, although Obama cannot use the words "military coup" as it is against US rules to fund armies who are going to carry one out. On this occasion the army did shoot and massacre 50 odd Muslim Brotherhood supporters.We have Egyptian v Egyptian v the army. Egypt remains a tinpot third world regime unable to govern itself or collect taxes, existing on bribes, corruption and backhanders and reliant on US and EU aid handouts. Without these handouts experts reckon it would be bust in 6 months. Its people remain poor,unable to get diesel and food prices are going up.
3. Prospects.
In the aftermath of the current disorder, the US and Australian Govts advised against travel to Egypt full stop. The UK Govt Foreign & Commonwealth Office advised Brits to go to the Red Sea resorts only or Cairo Airport as a transit. The dive industry is spouting that it is "business as usual" but UK tourists who had pre-booked don't have any choice do they? If they cancel their Red Sea holiday they won't get any refund whatsoever as the Govt says it is OK to travel. The acid test will be on advanced bookings and how many people choose to book in Egypt. As Crowley says, the images disturb UK families who think the whole Egyptian state is in chaos and that they may lose their hols should the situation deteriorate further. There will also be the moralists who won't give money to a state that overthrows its democratically elected Govt using military force, bangs up its leaders, pulls down its TV stations and massacres its own people. Personally if I was the type of person who sat behind wire at an all inclusive hotel compound in Sharm I would still go. I would also go to Dahab Town but very choosy who to venture inland there with as Bedouin crime is increasing. However excited talk of Sharia law,state beheadings and raping western women is nonsense and demonstrates xenophobia and ignorance.
However I think tourism/ diving will be further hit which is a shame as one in eight Egyptians work in tourism.
My associates reckon Dahab and Sharm are quiet . Probably combination of western recession, Ramadan and the fallout from the Mubarak removal. I fear worse may be to come.Brits will find "easier" destinations for hols.
I read your thoughts about the kidnappings in Sinai, and it sounds almost like they Bedouins are the "Merry Men from Sherwood forest"- they kidnap you, give you a splendid feast and then make you pay generously for the hospitality. Desert Robin Hoods :-D
The Bedouins are many things, but they are not the merry men from the Sherwood forest. Nor are they the "Noble Desert Warriors" from the stories of Lawrence of Arabia. Sure, there are lovely people among them- just as with any people who we meet all over the world- but generally I think the Bedouins care only about themselves. Don't be fooled- when needed they can easily switch from a bunch of lovely people to ruthless warriors and killers.
I have been living for a good many years and frequently visiting and crossing by foot for the better part of Sinai ever since the mid 80's, and all I can say is that in all these years I can hardly claim that I know or understand the Bedouin people- even when I thought I might know or understand them- they'd surprise in you in so many ways that I think even they don't really understand themselves, or one the other among different tribes, for that matter.
They have a completely different moral code than what we know- which is fine and I both appreciate and respect: it is this code that has helped them survive their nomadic lifestyle for thousands of years in a very harsh environment, but it is different than what we know nonetheless.
There are many tribes of Bedouins in Sinai, and they differ a lot one from the other. Having a few Bedouin friends from a coastal tribe (most likely Meszeina, in Sharm El Sheikh), acquainted while spending a pleasant couple of years working in Sharm, doesn't necessarily imply on the majority of other tribes, which are completely different people (for example the Gebalia tribe in the mountains of St. Katherine are from a completely different origin somewhere in east Europe...)
I don't think you'll be surprised to know that among these nice merry men of the desert there are not a few smugglers, which are opportunists- they'll smuggle merchandise like alcohol and cigarettes, but if they can make better money from smuggling weapons- they'll do it nonetheless. The nice couple of Brits who were served tea had a pleasant experience- good for them. Tell that to the hundreds of young women- mainly from Russia and Ukraine who were promised nice and respectful jobs on the "tourist industry" and were smuggled by the friendly Bedouins the "other type" of the tourist industry- prostitution.
Or, you tell that to the hundreds of refugees from Southern Sudan and Eritrea, who are intercepted on their way from Egypt to Israel by the friendly Bedouins, who kidnap and torture them and force them to call their families to get ransomed- usually giving away their whole life savings.
When I was much much younger, for a few years I spent the better part of my time trekking on the Sinai mountains. On one of those excursions (I think it was the winter of 1992- most of Sinai mountains were covered with snow
), I was with a small group crossing the peak of Gebel Sirbal and were shot at by a group of friendly Bedouins. You see, the friendly bedouins in the mountains are notorious drug smugglers- they have vast fields of poppies, from which they extract opium and traffic it god knows where. But they were really friendly, they just took our cameras and smashed them to pieces- had to kiss goodbye to my nice Leica TypeIIIb, 1938 model :-( )- but other than that and forcing us on a different route away from the poppy fields, they were really nice people. Oh, it's amazing but even on the major touristic area near St. Katherine mountains they cultivate poppy fields- they simply won't allow trekkers to go on to those areas- you see- they force a "dalil" (mountain guide) on any people who want to trek these area of the mountains, so they make sure no tourists go anywhere near these wadis where they grow poppies. But if you go to the mountains in any other areas- it is just a matter of time until you find some nice flowering fields of poppies- and maybe also a gun on your face. So what have we got by now? Drug cultivators, human traffickers (prostitutes and African refugees), weapon smugglers and apparently in the last years also inclining towards extreme Islam- really the best merry men of the desert one can wish for.
Just yesterday night, the nice lovely people attacked a bus, killing and injuring simple workers on their way to a cement factory. Sure, it's a "different country" in the distant, northern El Arish, but from the last time I've been in Sinai (about a month ago, just before the military coup) I could feel there's something going on just under the surface.
Sadly, I don't think I'll be visiting again anytime in the near future :-(
Last edited:
Hi Jai Bar -
Yes - what I wrote did indeed come across a bit like the Bedouin are the merry men of the desert and therefore could be interpreted as if I am excusing their behaviour somehow - which I am not, not in the slightest - however all the reports from the people who were kidnapped say the same thing: they were hijacked at gunpoint, it was very scary, and then they were well treated afterwards and released quickly and without harm.
I am in no way, shape or form suggesting that people should travel to Egypt to experience a kidnapping by the Bedouin as part of their holidays!! BUT - I do know some of them; we weren't exactly best mates and I didn't have them over to dinner regularly - but they visited my centre, one of them has visted my home on several occasions, and we had dinner parties in the desert organised by our Bedouin friends to celebrate certain events. There are serious problems amongst the population; there is a fairly prevalent drug problem amongst the population (and I'm talking injectable chemicals, not smokable herbs) and they are taking advantage of the political failure and lack of authority (which has been repressing them for decades) and using it to their own advantage.
A couple of years ago a French man was killed in a crossfire after 4 Bedouin attempted to raid a money exchange near the old market in Sharm. He wasn't a target; it was a stupid attempt at a robbery; the police waited outside and shot the Bedouin dead. The French guy was killed as a result, although he wasn't deliberately targeted by anybody. It's absolutely heinous that anything like this should ever have happened.
I'm not defending them - I'm simply offering a perspective on the situation as given to me by a Bedouin friend. I appreciate and acknowledge everything you are saying, Jai Bar, and you have more extensive experience with the population than I have personally, but I am also basing my posts after having extensive talks with certain European friends who have known the Bedouin community in South Sinai since the early 1970s.
And I repeat - I have no problem whatsoever if people don't want to book a holiday to Egypt - especially those with families and who might consider it a risk. There are politically stable countries to visit that also offer good diving. All I am saying is that if you are considering booking a holiday to Egypt, the tourist resorts remain safe, as they always have, and visitors should exercise the same caution they would visiting any other place in the world. There's lots of places in Europe, the UK and America that I would not want to visit as a solo traveller, late at night, wearing a gold watch and carrying a fat wallet and a shiny new iPhone.
Some people are understandably angry that they have booked a holiday and now want to cancel because of the current crisis. Travel companies are interested in good business and making money. Risk of rape and murder by beheading does not make money. They are not stupid and will not take unnecessary risks for a massive tourist operation until such time - if and when it happens - that travel to a certain destination becomes untenable. Refunds or redirections will then ensue, because they are no longer insured. Until such time as their insurance is guaranteed, they will not offer refunds for cancellation, because there is no reason to do so. At this point in time, the tourist resorts remain free of trouble and strife, and so holidays will go ahead. If the situation changes, they will be forced to offer refunds and redirections because otherwise they themselves will lose a lot of money. Sorry if you don't like it or don't agree, but that's the way it works.
And again - my advice as always: Book carefully, with reputable companies. Inquire as to their insurance policies. Read the small print. Stick to the tourist resorts and planned, insured excursions. Don't accept private trips into the desert from street-touts. Perhaps book last minute when you have a better idea of the situation. Do not be afraid.
If you don't want to go, don't go. We all understand that, and nobody will hold that decision against you - but don't tell me - as a person who lived in Sharm for four years and lived through and studied the first revolution and the ensuing political turmoil, and who still has plenty of friends there who really are just going about their daily business as usual, that Egypt has suddenly become a hotbed of rape and murder and slaughter of foreign tourists. I do not dispute that the situation may deteriorate into all-out civil war; we thought that in early 2011 and yes, the situation is different this time, but there is too much at stake for the rest of the world and as a tourist, at this time, the chances of anything untoward happening to you are slim to nil. Hundreds of thousands of tourists are right there, right now, and they are going diving and snorkelling and getting drunk in the bar afterwards.
It's not perfect. Tell me what is.
Crowley
Yes - what I wrote did indeed come across a bit like the Bedouin are the merry men of the desert and therefore could be interpreted as if I am excusing their behaviour somehow - which I am not, not in the slightest - however all the reports from the people who were kidnapped say the same thing: they were hijacked at gunpoint, it was very scary, and then they were well treated afterwards and released quickly and without harm.
I am in no way, shape or form suggesting that people should travel to Egypt to experience a kidnapping by the Bedouin as part of their holidays!! BUT - I do know some of them; we weren't exactly best mates and I didn't have them over to dinner regularly - but they visited my centre, one of them has visted my home on several occasions, and we had dinner parties in the desert organised by our Bedouin friends to celebrate certain events. There are serious problems amongst the population; there is a fairly prevalent drug problem amongst the population (and I'm talking injectable chemicals, not smokable herbs) and they are taking advantage of the political failure and lack of authority (which has been repressing them for decades) and using it to their own advantage.
A couple of years ago a French man was killed in a crossfire after 4 Bedouin attempted to raid a money exchange near the old market in Sharm. He wasn't a target; it was a stupid attempt at a robbery; the police waited outside and shot the Bedouin dead. The French guy was killed as a result, although he wasn't deliberately targeted by anybody. It's absolutely heinous that anything like this should ever have happened.
I'm not defending them - I'm simply offering a perspective on the situation as given to me by a Bedouin friend. I appreciate and acknowledge everything you are saying, Jai Bar, and you have more extensive experience with the population than I have personally, but I am also basing my posts after having extensive talks with certain European friends who have known the Bedouin community in South Sinai since the early 1970s.
And I repeat - I have no problem whatsoever if people don't want to book a holiday to Egypt - especially those with families and who might consider it a risk. There are politically stable countries to visit that also offer good diving. All I am saying is that if you are considering booking a holiday to Egypt, the tourist resorts remain safe, as they always have, and visitors should exercise the same caution they would visiting any other place in the world. There's lots of places in Europe, the UK and America that I would not want to visit as a solo traveller, late at night, wearing a gold watch and carrying a fat wallet and a shiny new iPhone.
Some people are understandably angry that they have booked a holiday and now want to cancel because of the current crisis. Travel companies are interested in good business and making money. Risk of rape and murder by beheading does not make money. They are not stupid and will not take unnecessary risks for a massive tourist operation until such time - if and when it happens - that travel to a certain destination becomes untenable. Refunds or redirections will then ensue, because they are no longer insured. Until such time as their insurance is guaranteed, they will not offer refunds for cancellation, because there is no reason to do so. At this point in time, the tourist resorts remain free of trouble and strife, and so holidays will go ahead. If the situation changes, they will be forced to offer refunds and redirections because otherwise they themselves will lose a lot of money. Sorry if you don't like it or don't agree, but that's the way it works.
And again - my advice as always: Book carefully, with reputable companies. Inquire as to their insurance policies. Read the small print. Stick to the tourist resorts and planned, insured excursions. Don't accept private trips into the desert from street-touts. Perhaps book last minute when you have a better idea of the situation. Do not be afraid.
If you don't want to go, don't go. We all understand that, and nobody will hold that decision against you - but don't tell me - as a person who lived in Sharm for four years and lived through and studied the first revolution and the ensuing political turmoil, and who still has plenty of friends there who really are just going about their daily business as usual, that Egypt has suddenly become a hotbed of rape and murder and slaughter of foreign tourists. I do not dispute that the situation may deteriorate into all-out civil war; we thought that in early 2011 and yes, the situation is different this time, but there is too much at stake for the rest of the world and as a tourist, at this time, the chances of anything untoward happening to you are slim to nil. Hundreds of thousands of tourists are right there, right now, and they are going diving and snorkelling and getting drunk in the bar afterwards.
It's not perfect. Tell me what is.
Crowley
Ultimately travelling to go diving, especially if a liveaboard is still going to be safe. Don't go to Cairo or Alex, don't wander around where you see large groups forming of angry looking people, especially those with beards. Simple common sense.
Egypt at the moment is an "internal resort safe" destination. Travelling between is probably not a good idea now especially in Sinai due to Bedouin feuds (arms, people, drug smuggling, kidnaps to get their criminal relatives released etc) but arriving at a resort aiport, staying in that resort or a liveaboard then leaving again i really can't see any increased risk at all with that.
Places like Marsa Alam are 500+ miles from any trouble and isolated little bubbles.
Egypt at the moment is an "internal resort safe" destination. Travelling between is probably not a good idea now especially in Sinai due to Bedouin feuds (arms, people, drug smuggling, kidnaps to get their criminal relatives released etc) but arriving at a resort aiport, staying in that resort or a liveaboard then leaving again i really can't see any increased risk at all with that.
Places like Marsa Alam are 500+ miles from any trouble and isolated little bubbles.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Messages
- 2,734
- Reaction score
- 752
- # of dives
- 500 - 999
Similar threads
