Upgrading from Canon S90 to DSLR or Mirrorless

[cordoer]

I have been shooting for the last couple of years with a Canon S90 (I previously used the Canon D10). My setup includes the Canon housing and one inexpensive strobe. I've been quite happy using this gear as I developed better buoyancy control and learned the basics of UW photography. However, in the last six months or so I've been thinking about adding wet lenses, and there are some obvious limitations to the S90 that have become frustrating (most significantly, for me, the small sensor size, limited adjustability of the depth of field, and the delay between shots).

Last night my S90 died, so I think it's probably time to upgrade to a DSLR or 4/3 camera. However, I'm really compulsive about research, particularly for something so expensive, and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. The mirrorless cameras sound appealing, but it sounds like the Canon EOS M doesn't have any housing options yet. I've enjoyed using Canons, so I'm not sure if the advantages of a 4/3 camera outweigh the downsides of switching brands.

When I was researching wet lenses that I could add to my S90 housing, I liked the idea of being able to switch from one to another during the course of a dive. I don't dive where I live (Seattle), so I'm usually not familiar enough with the sites I dive to know beforehand which lens I would want. However, I also want to use this camera on land, so maybe buying regular lenses and sticking with one per dive makes more sense.

I don't have a specific price range in mind, but I do work at a nonprofit, so price is definitely a significant factor. Size/weight is also important (I already travel with a ton of luggage), which is why I started looking at 4/3s. I don't want a 20-pound setup.

I've never shot video, so that's not a priority. Also, I am not the sort of person who feels compelled to buy the newest toy available (I bought my S90 after the S95 came out, because the price was better and I didn't need the HD video), but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to buy something so fragile used, given that there's no way for me to know how roughly a previous owner might have handled it (plus it seems like insurance may be a good idea, and I don't know if you can insure used gear).

In other words, I'm floundering, and will appreciate any feedback. I'm really good at arranging dive vacations on the cheap, so the cost of this new equipment could trade off with 1-2 vacations for me. That means if I'm going to take the plunge and upgrade, I want to end up feeling like what I bought is perfect for me, and to achieve that I will need some guidance.

Thanks in advance,

Emily

 

[00wabbit]

I have a s90 and a 60d. The 60d with lenses is heavy and tiresome to carry around all the time. Look at 4/3rds. You don't need to stick with canon.

 

[ozziworld]

I used to shoot and upgraded to a Canon 7D, not because I felt the need but because I could not resist a good deal on a used nauticam complete with camera, ports, gears and lenses.

My biggest complaint is the weight and size and am now considering a 4/3 setup. More specifically the Olympus OMD EM5.

The Sony NEX7 also looks very interesting.

If you travel a lot it will make a huge difference.

 

[chile7236]

if size/weight is important, M43...if not, and you have the $$$, DSLR. i only have the e-pl1 and love it.

 

[decidedlyodd]

Moving up from a point and shoot to a DSLR or mirrorless setup is generally going to be expensive. If you're committed though, you can build a system up gradually and spread those costs out over time as your skills and needs grow. For example, when I moved from a G12 w/ Canon housing to a T2i w/ Nauticam housing, I just got a 60mm macro lens with the corresponding port and a single strobe. Over time, I added a second strobe, a wide angle lens and port and an external viewfinder.

Since you live in Seattle, I'd encourage you to pay a visit to Jack (or one of his employees) at Optical Ocean Sales on Westlake Avenue. He has several setups on display that you can check out in person. It's really hard to comprehend the size and weight differences when shopping online. It can really provide a counterpoint to the all too easy overoptimization you seem to be going through with reading reviews online.

Another option if you're on a budget is to look for a complete used setup that somebody else is selling. I've seen some great deals around here or on places like nwdiveclub.com where somebody was selling a 2-3 year old housing, camera and some lenses with ports. It's not going to be as nice as a new camera, but you'll still have more capabilities than with a P&S.

 

[Peter Guy]

First of all, SHAME ON YOU for not diving locally! You are missing some absolutely great diving and a chance to take some fabulous pictures. But I digress....

It's too bad you didn't come on the board and ask this question a couple of weeks ago because an online company screwed up and priced the Olympus EPL-1 and Housing at an insane price (they priced the combination at the price of just the housing and honored their mistake). It is still available at a good price but just not as good -- $700 for the camera, kit lens and housing (Adorama).

But the camera is several generations old and the newest version, EPL-5 with housing will be just about $1300. (BTW, neither of these include tray or strobe but you should be able to use your existing tray and strobe with either setup.)

Other than the EPL-1 has 780p video and the first generation kit lens which is slower to focus but might be a bit sharper in macro (at least that is my understanding), I'm not at all sure what the differences among the various versions are. (I think they are all still using the same sensor, but I could be wrong there too.)

I've had the EPL-1 setup since just after it was released and love it (so much I now have three bodies and two housings). It is all the camera I can use and some day I may even start adding more lenses and ports (wide angle).

It is my belief the micro 4/3s systems are the way to go for underwater photography -- a great balance of size, weight and image sharpness and clarity. Yes, the higher end DSLRs are faster to focus and have a greater choice of lenses -- but they come at a price in weight and $ and complexity.

 

[cordoer]

That's all really useful information. I'm definitely leaning towards the 4/3s.

I do have a few residual questions. Is the consensus that Canon, Olympus, and Sony will all be pretty much equivalent in terms of ease of use and durability (not just quality of photos, which I understand is much more based on user-abilities), given that the new Canon 4/3 seems not to have a housing yet so I'd have to learn a new brand's system? Does anyone know if any of the housing companies are planning to produce a housing for it in the next year? I could put off making the purchase for a while, because I don't have plans for another dive trip until next fall (at least at this point). Also, is the consensus that it's not too risky buying a used package? Can you insure a used package? Is insurance a good idea?

Peter: I've heard the diving in Seattle is cool, but I'm pretty resistant to cold water and dry suits as long as I have the opportunity to dive in the tropics a couple of times a year. Plus I hate to spend money on renting cold water gear that I could put into my camera fund. However, the next time I have a warm water diving trip planned for sure is next fall, so my guess is that sometime in the next six months I'll start missing it too much and try diving in Seattle.

Decidedlyodd: I considered stopping by Optical Ocean (it's probably only 1/2 mile from my home), but I will almost certainly have to buy used (or at least watch the online sales) to be able to afford the set, so I would feel guilty about wasting Jack's time.

Thanks again everyone,

Emily

 

[PatW]

I have used the Canon G11 and the Nikon D7000.

The mirrorless systems have several advantages over the compact cameras like the S90 and several advantages of DSLRs.

They have the advantage of having a larger sensor then the compact cameras. The systems are also considerably smaller and more compact than the DSLR systems. A DSLR system can be quite heavy and quite expensive. My DSLR system weighs just about as much as my SCUBA gear. It is a bit of a challenge getting it through the airport but I can manage. I think many people would just as soon not go through that chore.

The Nikon DX sensor on the D7000 is just a bit bigger than the 4.3 sensors, so that is not a real big advantage. The biggest advantage I have seen is the speed and accuracy of the focus of the DSLR system vs the compact system. On a mirrorless system, you are focusing on an LED screen and not really through the viewfinder like a DSLR. Now this makes the biggest difference with small, fish that don't sit still long like damselfish and butterfly fish. It does not make much of a difference with most macro subjects, other divers, large fish or landscape shots. The accuracy of focus does come into all of those. With my G11, I was pretty much focusing on the outline of the critter. With my D7000, I can focus on a specific part of the fish like its eyeball. So the accuracy of focus comes into play in macro photography.

Also, I would think that the DSLR system has much more well established lens line up than any of the mirrorless systems. The lenses for both DX and FX systems in Nikon and the corresponding sensor DSLRs in Canon are well known and well reviewed. Also, there are good to excellent 3rd party manufacturers making lenses for both systems.

If you are thinking of used, you can sometimes get a good price on a used system in the DSLR area. In Nikon, the D90 and the D300 are both fine cameras and their housings are often sold at a considerable discount used, I assume the same is true in the Canon system. The 4/3 systems have not been around as long so I doubt that there is as many offerings in the used market. But one can be surprised. I do see even nearly new systems offered used in the DSLR area. I guess someone goes out and buys it and decides that they do not want it after all.

Also, I would strongly recommend dealing through a local dealer if you have one. I am lucky enough to have a fine dealer, Reef Photo within a number of hours from my house. Being able to talk to them and see the systems in person makes a big difference. Also if something messes up, you can take it back in person.

Good luck Emily.

 

[Larry C]

The consensus seems to be that the OMD-EM5 is the best suited for UW given the range of lenses available for it. Olympus is very reasonable on housings and ports as well, and there are lots of alternative housings if you don't like the Oly. Research strobes as well. AFAIK, the Oly will do optical TTL with any of the popular strobes, but check with the mfg.'s of the strobes and check other threads on it to be sure of what works best.
And man-up and get yourself comfortable with cold water diving! I've been to the Caribbean, the South Pacific and the South China/Indian Ocean area and I still prefer what I find right at home on the West Coast. There is more life per square foot in the Eastern Pacific temperate zone than you'll find anywhere else. My wife and I dive Monterey every weekend and even when there's two foot vis, you can still find stuff to look at.

 

[Dive Wananavu Fiji]

Just because everyone has their opinion here is my $0.02. I have never shot with one but the new Sony RX100 has been getting some amazing reviews with it's large sensor. It is configured very similar to the Canon s100 and about the same size as the s90. 20megpix camera with a sensor like 4x the size of the Canon s100. Impressive little beast.

I currently shoot with a Canon 5DmkII and have a Canon s100 as my backup camera. Both have their pros and cons but the images out of the RX100 look like they beat my s100, but not the 5D2, of course 1/4 the size and the price.

Cheers,
Chris Liles
Dive Manager - Dive Wananavu Fiji