Vegetarian Divers?

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-boltfish once bubbled...

That statement is broadly true. Furthermore, it was aimed at one member, so if anything, I should owe him an apology.

"Your post is exactly the kind of uneducated, arrogant school of thought of so many idiotic Americans."

That's not an insult to an individual.


-boltfish once bubbled...
However, his comment was an arrogant one, so I feel that an apology is not in order. Moreover, as illustrated by quotes like 'We don't care,' you yourself are behaving like an arrogant pig.

As opposed to you?

That's rich


-boltfish once bubbled...
Why do you so arrogantly asume that you're right? You can't even run up to the moral highground here because you slaughter and maim innocent creatures for food.

I'm already on the moral highground.

Man, in the shallow end of its' gene pool, is the only creature that could, or would, reject a staple food source and consider it a moral imperative.

I assume I'm right, because my diet isn't a deviation from the norm of the vastly eclipsing majority of my species.

As to your rediculous "rape and murder" conjecture, these animals have no realization of those concepts, and in many cultures, neither do humans.

That you consider yourself morally superior to any other species is indicative of your own arrogance and ignorance, and rather contradictory to your point, that these animals are not for our use.


You are, however, amusing.
 
-boltfish once bubbled...
<snip>But, this is not my point. My point, and heed this well, is that it is fundamentally cruel and inhumane to butcher animals in the way that we do at the moment. For that reason, I am a vegetarian. Perhaps if we let our animals live a long and happy ('free range') life before we killed them then I would eat meat. Unfortunately, that is not the case:<snip>

Dont' you mean to add In my opinion to the begining of the paragraph above? Because you don't get to unilaterally make judgements on the planet (well, I guess you can spout them, but no one has to listen to them), you don't get to unilaterally declare what is moral or not either. If you want someone to respect your decision, you might want to start with admitting that it is an opinion (as oposed to gospel truth) and that others have their own opinions.

That being said, I am by no means a vegetarian, I eat from most food groups. I don't however eat veal, because I don't like how the animals are treated.

I agree with Phish-phood, as long as animals aren't being killed for sport but for food....I don't have a problem with it.

BTW, I have a number of friends who live in more rural areas of the US and they don't buy meat, pretty much the only meat they eat is what they've hunted for. So, I guess by your standards....they have some moral highground in eating meat?
 
-boltfish once bubbled...
Furthermore, it was aimed at one member, so if anything, I should owe him an apology. However, his comment was an arrogant one, so I feel that an apology is not in order. Moreover, as illustrated by quotes like 'We don't care,'

Which member are you talking about? Was it my post?

Cornfed
 
I'm sure he was talking about mine :)

Just so you know, I dont' have a problem with veggie diets, as long as you don't tell me I am cruel for eating bambi

part of my post was to do some razing on purpose, because I find that most vegiterains that don't eat meat due to the fact that "cows are cute" or whatever, get very emotional, look at these posts, I don't think I need to explain or point fingers there :)

I discovered my love at poking up the fire when I dated a girl that didn't eat cows because "they were cute". We went out, I sat down in front of my juicy bloody steak, and that was all she wrote, that girl was out the door so fast her feet didn't touch the ground, but not before I had some fun first :)
 
Phish-phood once bubbled...
Botlfish, like I said your points are well made and well taken by everyone on the board, but you just don't seem to be doing anyone else the courtesey of appreciating that we all have different views.
You ask what my qualifications are yet all you do is paste quotes form various sources which support your own beliefs? What are your qualifications?
I have my opinions and theories for my own reasons, formed mostly from extensive reading in the area and from my own experiences. I could back up my theories with any number of papers, quotes and references is I so choose. The fact that I am also a qualified scientist who is doing further training in the study of populations, it's control and effect helps aswell.

Bolts qualifications are that she is 16 years old and feeling a little emotional right now. Give her about 15 years to wise up and figure out that its not all black and white.
 
Boltfish, I would not go into nationality bashing. That is uncouth and unnecessary. In one nation there are a set of many moral standards, some of those standards might not be the prevailing standard for the majority. However, The United States Constitution was written to allow everyone in this country (that would be the US, not England) to be able to have their own set of Morals, and be able to speak without those of opposing viewpoints being able to silence them.

The United States has been settled and is populated by representatives of almost every tribe and country on this planet. Many people in the United States of America still practice their traditions. By making broad statements that "All Americans” You are in fact stating "The World” because almost all viewpoints are expressed in this nation.

It would be foolish of me to make a statement about "All England" based on my dialog with you. I happen to know better. I have been to England, I am aware of its socialist structure. I have talked to many people. I have even gotten into debates about why our illustrious President is condoning the use of the Alaska Wildlife preserve to drill for oil. (Let’s not open up that can of worms, its WAY off topic) I find constructive dialog with people of different viewpoints to be enlightening and helps improve me as a person.

The viewpoints that have been expressed by you and others are honest and heartfelt. However, those are not the only viewpoints.

I believe if you would look at the world Census, The overall population growth of almost all the rich nations of the world is in a Decline. This does not include India which is still growing.

I have mentioned before that I help keep population of pests out of fields. Despite what you say it _HAS_ to be done. I am aware of one farmer in Christmas valley that grows Alfalfa; he has lost entire fields to the rabbits that come in from the sagebrush. The Rabbits Flourish on the rich Alfalfa and then in the winter many of them die of starvation because the ecosystem cannot support the population. Those that do not starve, and are not good at hiding get picked off by the local bobcats and coyotes. With ample food sources the Coyotes themselves breed out of control and threaten the local deer population.

By themselves, Greenbush, Rabbits, Coyotes, and bobcats will keep themselves in check. But Humans have to come along and plant something that is super nutritious and it throws the ecosystem out of whack. When that happens it is not only us that have to protect the fields by keeping various varmint species out, but we also must keep the predator population in check to protect the other fauna.

Whatever we do, as humans, we must watch the balance of the land around us. Planting and hunting are both things that MUST be done; whatever we do, we will impact our environment.

Let just say, for example that we all switched over to eating Veggies, We would need many more farms, and Farms take land, land that is currently being used by various wild animals. What would become of those animals whose land we take to feed ourselves?

According to your profile you are in England. England has had humans in the environment for a very long time. The species that could not deal with it are no more, it is relatively safe there. I am not aware of any Apex predators that exist in England besides humans. The environment has been "gentrified" for over a thousand years. That is not the case with the American Continent. Those that do not live in Cities must be more callus, they have a different set of morals or values to survive. The values that you possess suit you and your environment, and are not going to work everywhere.

Also, Statistics are not very good to use. As its easy to make them say whatever you would like them to say.
 
Windwalker once bubbled...
Boltfish, I would not go into nationality bashing.

It's not Bolt's fault he's a vegetarian... vegetables are all that's safe to eat over there!
 
Is that the kind of trigger-happy American attitude we've seen recently in Iraq?
England's record of trigger-happy invasions of other countries is WAY longer than America's

..and calling people with opposing views, pigs does not help your arguement much... should we then assume all English are childish name-callers like you?

...and anyone that thinks cows are cute never raised a herd of them...they sh*t in their food and then refuse to eat it because it has sh*t in it, they sh*t all over themselves and all over each other...nothin' cute about that.
 
Isn't it interesting that vegetarian divers deny their carnivorous nature, yet exhaltate in diving in the ocean of life whose life blood is Eat or Be Eaten ~Z
 
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