what do you consider an advanced dive?

[tphelps]

I consider a dive "advanced" if it has additional task loading, environmental considerations, or any other skills outside the parameters of a standard Open Water course. This can be things like managing a line inside a wreck, excessive current, no bottom dives (like an oil platform back home), night diving, intensive navigation, etc. I just taught an Advanced Open Water course this weekend. One of the points I try to get across when handing out their temporary cert cards is that this does not make them "advanced" divers. As some one else mentioned the word "advanced" has a bit of ego attached to it. A true "advanced" diver may only have an OW cert but 500 dives under their belt. This is why many Divemasters ask for certification level AND # of completed dives. Often the amount of dives in more indicative of their skill level. True experience and confidence is earned through practice and repetition. In the course I teach I focus a lot on trim and buoyancy - important skills that will make them "advanced" with practice.

Great thread, thanks for posting!

 

[tkdgodess]

My local mudhole we all use for ow training can easily turn into an advanced dive if the weather is right. I had a deep class to conduct and my coworker had an advanced class day 2 dives to conduct and we called all training for the day and sent them home. Then we went for a dive in 4 foot waves and ripping random currents. We took our dmit who struggled a bit but we of course are mentoring. Regular dive site was advanced dive that day.

 

[Diver0001]

So what's your idea of an "advanced" dive site ... and what amount of experience and training would you consider appropriate to dive that site? It'd be interesting to see how this differs for varying regions and conditions ...

This is a hard question to answer. There's a site that I dive with every week or two with my regular buddy that some people might consider advanced... at least in the manner in which we dive it.

It has a fairly easy entrance, falls off from 2 metres to about 40 metres over about a 20min swim. There's a wreck at about 35 metres that you can find if you have a scooter or swim over the surface for about 20 min out.

What makes it a dive that most beginners wouldn't try is that we swim out until we're 5 or 10 min over the NDL's and then make a mid water staged ascent while we swim back. I usually control the stops and my buddy controls navigation. Visibility at that site is about 3 metres most days so we spend about 1/2 of the dive in mid water with zero reference and just flying on instruments. The challenge is to navigate back through mid water to within spitting distance of the exit.

We just do this for the exercise and of course you could turn back before we do. I think some people would consider that an advanced dive. For us we've done this so often that it's more a game, like target shooting

For the rest, I guess I would consider an advanced site anything deeper than about 35 metres with non-trival navigation and/or risks of delays that could put you over the NDL's. The other element that would define an advanced site to me would be surface conditions including strong currents or wave action that could lead to you drifting away from a boat or not being seen by the crew.

R..

 

[victorzamora]

In my opinion, I think Lynne was about halfway there. However, I don't think any one of the factors she listed makes a dive an "advanced" dive. If there's heavy current, but 250ft of vis, hard bottom at 40ft, exit anywhere you'd like, warm water, etc.....then it's just a high-current dive. I think the trouble comes when they start combining. Mildly heavy current and low vis is much more advanced (to me) than zero current and ZERO vis (not silty-cave zero, but "regular" zero vis). I've never done it this way before, but if you take the list of factors that have been mentioned here and assign them "points" (1 being easiest, 10 being incredibly tough) and then tally them up.....I think THAT would be a way to determine an advanced dive.

To make the point: Roatan diving is commonly on a wall, where you jump off the boat onto sand ~40fsw. Then you go to the wall, with virtually no bottom (300fsw+ isn't uncommon) and just drift. You don't have to worry about exit point, there are no weird vertical currents, it's nice warm water with GREAT visibility. You have the depth factor weighing heavily, but you have no other factors contributing to the complexity. My wife's first post-cert dive was the dive mentioned.

Here's a calculation example, for the local river I used to dive in in Blacksburg, VA. High-ish current, low-ish vis, very shallow, easy entry/exit (boat ramp). When conditions were alright, it was a VERY benign site. I'm penalizing "visibility" as it's disorienting to new divers, but navigation is easy because you always know which way the current is going. You may not find a specific landmark, but you'll find some cool rock structure anywhere you look. I'm calling familiarity a 1 as we all became VERY familiar with the site (like, drawing the DM Mapping Project from memory....and correcting eachother from memory). "Downdrafts" is a zero because it's literally NOT possible here, but it refers to any vertical current.

Current - 3
Depth - 1
Visibility - 5
"Downdrafts" - 0
Entry/Exit - 1
Familiarity - 1
Navigation - 3

Total: 14. I consider that a non-advanced dive. I think the SUM is more important than the average. Does that make sense?

 

[Hank49]

I can imagine a lot of dives I haven't done as advanced. Anything in a dry suit, which i've never done. Any cave....brrrrrr, wreck penetration, mixed gas, rebreather. The list goes on.

Recently I did what I would consider somewhat advanced. My son and I installed a FAD (fish aggregation device)
The depth was 350 feet based on my fish finder. Blue water. One guy driving the boat for us.
We dropped the anchor material and line and then had to dive down and attach a guava tree, some woven "Aqua Mats", coconut leaves and some flotation to keep it all from being laid down horizontal in the inevitable current.

Lot of stuff to think about since we'd never done it before. The dive and depth itself wasn't that challenging. What WAS challenging was determining what to take down to what depth and attach it. We could take a LOT of stuff and not have to surface but be challenged with keeping track of lines, AquaMats, etc, or risk going up and down to 40-60-90 feet.
And then getting the floaters down to various depths. We used a few 6 gallon, plastic jugs. Easy to fill with water and take it down, but then.... calculate how much air it would take at what depth to fill it....Would I have enough? Would I have to CESA? haha.
About half way into the project I was thinking.....man, the next time we'll plan it a lot better.

And then, for all our hard work, someone stole the damn thing. It was gone when we went to find it the next week. We did put one more and the dive and installation was easier having learned. But someone stole that one too.

 

[Edward3c]

Interesting question, and easy to go down the advanced diver route rather then the question an advanced dive.

For me its any dive that is stretching either diver's experience or skill set. Including getting back in the water after a lay-off.

I'll be running a session, week Saturday, where one group of divers (experienced) will be using dry-suits for the first time, this might be considered advanced for them. Yet there will be another half-dozen new divers doing their first sea dive – and yes they will be in dry-suits. Are these also advanced dives? Not in my opinion.

The first group are likely to do a dive of anything up to 20m, but the second group will be limited to 6m and spend most of their time getting used to being in open water with a bit of mask and DV clearing, buoyancy control (hover) and learning how to jettison their weight-belts. The fact they will be wearing dry-suits is incidental.

Kind regards

 

[muzikbiz22]

The dive or dives that come to mind involve depth, ripping current (being blown off a wreck), the entire group separated, a blue water safety stop while trying to shoot a sausage and manage a DSLR rig, break the surface to 6 foot swells, and get picked up by the boat 20 to 30 minutes later. All of these components combined, made for a harrowing dive this past summer.

 

[scubadada]

I don't know, but I recognize it when I see it

 

[lsorenson]

So what's your idea of an "advanced" dive site ... and what amount of experience and training would you consider appropriate to dive that site? It'd be interesting to see how this differs for varying regions and conditions ...

This is what I get for reading to quickly...

Here is one that I will use... The Megalodon Ledges here in North Carolina. Not a very difficult dive most of the time; 30+ miles out, 2/3 100' dives, vis can be iffy at times from <10'-30', seas vary from calm to pretty rough...

To me, it is an advanced dive... I enjoy going by myself or in a group, it matters not but if someone I know (with skills) comes up to me and ask if I would take them to the ledges, I ask them a couple of questions...

1, Have you ever dove off the North Carolina coast? If the answers are "NO" then I would invite them to do a wreck dive because the problem is rarely getting off the boat but rather keeping your teeth when getting back on... Weather can kick up quickly around here.

2, Do you have a pony and work with one easily? Its easy to get separated doing this dive, a group of two or three divers start fanning for teeth, well, you can find yourself in your basic silt out 10 or so feet high and from here to there so you have to be able to take care of yourself if you get separated, even when someone is using a wreck reel... No pony, no dive...!

3, Can you safely do a free accent and deploy your smb at depth? Cant find your way back to the anchor or the boat breaks free (and both happen as we broke free last year and had 20 divers down below) You have to be able to get to the surface safely and be seen...!

Keep in mind, this is would be someone that I am aware of their skills already...

If you say I am an (insert any name) because I have a requirement before I take you with me... fine, don't go. Its a great dive but it can get dangerous...!

If I don't know you; please don't ask because I wont be responsible for you...

lee

 

[pocky21]

Any dive that goes beyond "just diving"

In other words, when you have to put some thought into it

A dive at the local jetty isn't typically advanced to me...but if I catch the tide exchange wrong and the current starts ripping to the point I step off autopilot, it becomes an advanced dive.