What is this?

[archman]

I was wondering about this myself. Could someone take some soft corals (reds, yellows etc.) from the Indo-Pacific and transplant them in the Caribbean? Or even Indo-Pacific clownfishes for that matter?

Yes to all questions. I would hunt you down if you did, assuming NMFS or some other regulatory agency didn't get to you first. That would constitute introduction of an exotic species. Ecologists HATE exotic species.

 

[maractwin]

For anyone who does want to identify stoney corals such as acroporas, I've got a suggestion.

This fall I was at a lecture by Charlie Veron, who is probably the world expert on this subject. Because every species grows in different forms under different conditions, identification is very difficult, even for experts. Charlie has put together a computer program that lets you specify characteristics to identify what coral you've got. You can find it at http://www.aims.gov.au/coralidcd/CoralID_Overview.htm

I've got a copy, and other than it only running under Windows, it is an excellent resource.

-Mark

 

[f3nikon]

Yes to all questions. I would hunt you down if you did, assuming NMFS or some other regulatory agency didn't get to you first. That would constitute introduction of an exotic species. Ecologists HATE exotic species.

Why not? it is well known that the Indo-Pacific is the cradle for the coral kingdom, it has the most diverse / densest amount of coral and fish life in the world. In fact the coral species drops off drastically, the further out you go beyond the Coral Triangle (Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia)

On second thought, the Caribbean may not be suitable or cannot sustain such “exotic” coral life. Possibly due to pollution (coral bleaching) or the lack of nutrients, brought in by the various ocean upwelling, as the case where the Indian and Pacific Oceans meet. Or the amount of islands so closely bunched together, ie 13,000 islands of Indonesia and 7,000 of the Philippines alone. Caribbean, about 600 total islands.

Just wondering, because I also dive the Caribbean. Anyway, how can you HATE Nemo?

 

[archman]

Why not? it is well known that the Indo-Pacific is the cradle for the coral kingdom, it has the most diverse / densest amount of coral and fish life in the world. In fact the coral species drops off drastically, the further out you go beyond the Coral Triangle (Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia)

The Indo-Pacific is over an order of magnitude larger in size than the Caribbean. That's what fosters the higher coral and fish diversity there. As for density, that's not clear-cut at all. Diversity is not all favoring the Indo-Pacific incidentally; the Caribbean wins when it comes to sponges.

On second thought, the Caribbean may not be suitable or cannot sustain such “exotic” coral life.

You are misunderstanding what an "exotic" is. Its any organism not native to the habitat it's in. Indo-Pacific species get loose in the Caribbean all the time. They come mostly via ship's ballast water, and folks dumping their aquariums into the ocean. The Indo-Pacific is much poorly studied than the Caribbean, so we really don't know much about exotics entering it.

Possibly due to pollution (coral bleaching) or the lack of nutrients, brought in by the various ocean upwelling, as the case where the Indian and Pacific Oceans meet. Or the amount of islands so closely bunched together, ie 13,000 islands of Indonesia and 7,000 of the Philippines alone. Caribbean, about 600 total islands.

Coral bleaching is caused by a wide variety of factors... pollution is one. High water temperatures are the biggie. Bleaching is a worldwide phenomenon, in no way confined to the Caribbean. As for nutrients, you've got it backwards. The Caribbean has MORE nutrients, as there is a much greater human footprint pooping it up. Nutrients loading in tropical systems is BAD. It occludes the water column with plankton, expands disease vectors, and enhances algal growth. A funny side effect of higher nutrient loading in the Caribbean, is the much greater regulatory efforts to control it. In the Indo-Pacific you see far less environmental protection, except for limited areas (although the Great Barrier Reef and Hawaii stand out).

Just wondering, because I also dive the Caribbean. Anyway, how can you HATE Nemo?

Clownfish are not native to the Caribbean, nor are the anemones that they prefer. However friggin' clownfish are dumped into Florida and Gulf waters all the time. Fortunately they all seem to die... at least as far as we know. In the case of lionfishes, those suckers are now here to stay.

 

[f3nikon]

Interesting, this must be a touchy subject.

My questions to you: Have you ever been to the Indo-Pacific? Let alone scuba dive in any of it’s waters?

 

[archman]

Interesting, this must be a touchy subject.

To paraphrase an earlier posting on this thread, "ECOLOGISTS HATE EXOTICS". Read my rants on the lionfish threads... few things drive me battier. Mayonaisse maybe. Oh and that talking sponge on Nickelodeon. It's not even a natural sponge... I don't get that at all.

My questions to you: Have you ever been to the Indo-Pacific? Let alone scuba dive in any of it’s waters?

Funny as this sounds, I've made a professional decision to avoid the Pacific Ocean. My hands are full with the biota of the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. I'm "ok" on much of the West Atlantic, as well as deepwater habitats. I can teach the broader concepts of Indo-Pacific reef communities, but that's knowledge from the books and our in-house specimen collections. Ditto for California and New England biota.

If you've got specific questions on an endemic Pacific species, I usually defer those to other folks on the board. However many of the genus-level and higher taxa crossover across oceanic basins, and I can usually tackle them. Clownfish are a sub-grouping of pomacentrid fishes, so they're easy for me. Acroporid corals too... I was just "messing" with David.

 

[f3nikon]

To paraphrase an earlier posting on this thread, "ECOLOGISTS HATE EXOTICS". Read my rants on the lionfish threads... few things drive me battier. Mayonaisse maybe. Oh and that talking sponge on Nickelodeon. It's not even a natural sponge... I don't get that at all.(/Quote)




Do you know who is the creator of Sponge Bob Squarepants?

Biography for
Stephen Hillenburg

As a child he loved the films of Jacques Cousteau, so Stephen Hillenburg earned a degree in natural-resource planning and interpretation, with an emphasis in marine resources from Humboldt State University (Arcata, Calif.) in 1984. For three years he taught marine biology at the Orange County Marine Institute (now known as the Orange County Ocean Institute), in Dana Point, California. He had always enjoyed drawing and painting, so he pursued a master's-degree program in experimental animation at the California Institute of the Arts, in Valencia. All these experiences came together to create SpongeBob SquarePants.





(Quote)
Funny as this sounds, I've made a professional decision to avoid the Pacific Ocean. My hands are full with the biota of the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. I'm "ok" on much of the West Atlantic, as well as deepwater habitats. I can teach the broader concepts of Indo-Pacific reef communities, but that's knowledge from the books and our in-house specimen collections. Ditto for California and New England biota.

If you've got specific questions on an endemic Pacific species, I usually defer those to other folks on the board. However many of the genus-level and higher taxa crossover across oceanic basins, and I can usually tackle them. Clownfish are a sub-grouping of pomacentrid fishes, so they're easy for me. Acroporid corals too... I was just "messing" with David.

Yes indeed, I really do believe you should widen your horizons, and not comment about the Indo-Pacific, Pacific or any body of water west of the Colorado river, with any authority, due to the fact that you have never been to these places.

Here is some higher learning:

http://marine.wri.org/pubs_content_text.cfm?ContentID=684

The epicenter of global marine biodiversity

Scientists have found more coral species around a single island in Southeast Asia than have been identified for the entire Caribbean.[1] The map below, which shows coral reef diversity worldwide, illustrates the high concentration of species in the region, particularly in the broad Indo-Malayan Triangle, stretching from the Philippines to the southern islands of Indonesia and encompassing all of Java east to New Guinea. This extraordinary diversity has built up over geological timescales, but it is maintained through the wide array of physical conditions-salinity, wave exposure, depth, temperature, and turbidity-found across Southeast Asia that fulfill the requirements of a broad range of species.[2] The region contains more than 600 of the nearly 800 reef-building coral species (Scleractinia) found worldwide.[3]

http://marine.wri.org/pubs_content_text.cfm?ContentID=682

http://www.indopacific.org/biodiversity.html

http://pdf.wri.org/rrseasia_chap2.pdf

 

[David P]

archman, you didnt by chance publish a book with a macro photo of a Euphyllia ancora on the cover did you? either way "gig em aggies!" (I still dont know what the hell that means...kinda like a talking kitchen sponge at the bottom of the ocean...)

 

[archman]

I really do believe you should widen your horizons, and not comment about the Indo-Pacific, Pacific or any body of water west of the Colorado river, with any authority, due to the fact that you have never been to these places.

I appreciate your concern. I apear to be miscommunicating my level of expertise. It's scaled from the viewpoint of a regional field ecologist, which is far more rigorous than the scale used for the general public. My limitations to Indo-Pacific systems would only be apparent to regional field researchers. We all have equivalent base training, and share a great deal of the advanced concepts as well. But please do not presume the lack of "expert" status implies no expertise at all.

Let’s take for example the nice snippet you quoted.

The epicenter of global marine biodiversity:
Scientists have found more coral species around a single island in Southeast Asia than have been identified for the entire Caribbean.[1] The map below, which shows coral reef diversity worldwide, illustrates the high concentration of species in the region, particularly in the broad Indo-Malayan Triangle, stretching from the Philippines to the southern islands of Indonesia and encompassing all of Java east to New Guinea. This extraordinary diversity has built up over geological timescales, but it is maintained through the wide array of physical conditions-salinity, wave exposure, depth, temperature, and turbidity-found across Southeast Asia that fulfill the requirements of a broad range of species.[2] The region contains more than 600 of the nearly 800 reef-building coral species (Scleractinia) found worldwide.[3]

A. Here’s what ANY invertebrate zoologist can do with that, without referring to notes.
1. List & describe most/all major sub-groupings of scleractinian corals.
2. Be well familiar with the “generic” genera, enough to recognize by sight, both
living and preserved specimens.
3. Describe in detail the anatomy and physiology of scleractinian corals
4. Display at least a basic understanding of scleractinian behaviours,
environmental tolerances, reproductive methods, and internal/external symbionts.
5. Professionally critique it.

B. Here’s what ANY tropical marine ecologist can do with same article.
1. Describe in detail the bulk of known environmental parameters required to
maintain tropical hermatypic corals.
2. Have at least a crude understanding of both macro- and micro-algal ecology as
pertaining to hermatypic reef structure and function
3. List major fish taxa (both resident and transitory) common to the habitat, and
describe their general behaviours and role in community structure/function
4. Professionally critique it

Obviously there’s more, these are just off the top of my head. I dumbed it down for some of my peers. The KEY enhancements that an actual “expert” on Indo-Pacific biota would bring to the table would be regional in scope. He/she would be better with:
1. local species
2. geography
3. regional laws and regulations
4. local events

What was the topic for this thread? I forgot.

 

[PhotoTJ]

That's the dumbed down version?!?

Jeez, I was feeling good about knowing the latin names for the California Spiney and Maine Lobsters!

You have crushed my feeble knowledge!