What's with sidemount?

[VooDooGasMan]

I like it wookie, I have a very old waist pony holder that is great for shallow dives and always thought a couple of forty's would do it for regular dives. Nitrox fills also will be another slow down for filling, a lot you have on your plate to get prepped.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We do not limit gear configuration on tech dives in any way, but we look at homebuilt/heavily modified rebreathers with a very close eye. We do not allow full sized doubles on any recreational dive trip, purely as a matter of space. I would have no problem with a diver bringing small diameter doubles (40's, 43's) and diving them sidemount, or diving an 80/100/whatever sidemount with a counter balance or not, and I have no issue with monkey diving. As Bob said, we look at sidemount divers very carefully, but only because it seems like the wrong tool for the job when diving 40-80 foot deep coral reefs.

I ask because I'm trying to get my head wrapped around sidemount for recreational divers. It seems we are going to see this configuration more and more, so I want the crew to be ready for it. It means I will have to go out and buy a bunch of 40's for rentals, and figure out a way to secure them on the boat. It's gonna make surface intervals longer, which means less diving for all because it takes longer to fill 2 tanks than one. Not for the air compressor, but for hooking up the whips and actually filling them. If it were a passing fad, I wouldn't bother with it. If it's something I have to cater to, I need to configure the boat a little differently.

My first sidemount boat dives were in Panama City on some shallow wrecks (70-80 fsw). I was using sidemount because it was the last day of the trip I took down there for SM training, and that's what I had available to dive. The owner brought a pair of Worthington LP77's for me to use, and I was able to get in both dives on these tanks ... breathing them down to about 1600 on the first dive, and then using the remaining gas on the second dive.

It's a fairly common approach on dive boats in my area that if someone brings doubles for recreational dives, they'll be getting two dives out of them without a need for fills ... or at a minimum, with just a bit of "topping" between dives. Is this not a feasible approach for the type of dives you're doing down there?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[nolatom]

So is sidemount the latest "cool" thing then?

Damn. I was trying to make mismatched fins the next cool thing. Frank actually helped me get started in this a couple of months ago ;-)

 

[Lobzilla]

...We do not allow full sized doubles on any recreational dive trip, purely as a matter of space...

Could you please explain how two banded and manifolded tanks are taking up more space than the same two tanks individually. If the spacing of your tank holders is the problem than fixing that may be a better use of your authority as a captain than telling divers what tools they should choose for THEIR job.

ESPECIALLY on "recreational" dives I love doubles just in case insta-hoover-buddy goes OOG. Doubles give me twice the gas resources on the first dive and on the second dive I carry the reserve from the first on top of what a single tank diver has. If someone wants to SM two tanks, for whatever reason, the same benefits apply. What is not to like about that from the perspective of safety?

 

[Wookie]

Could you please explain how two banded and manifolded tanks are taking up more space than the same two tanks individually. If the spacing of your tank holders is the problem than fixing that may be a better use of your authority as a captain than telling divers what tools they should choose for THEIR job.

ESPECIALLY on "recreational" dives I love doubles just in case insta-hoover-buddy goes OOG. Doubles give me twice the gas resources on the first dive and on the second dive I carry the reserve from the first on top of what a single tank diver has. If someone wants to SM two tanks, for whatever reason, the same benefits apply. What is not to like about that from the perspective of safety?

I never said one took up more space than the other, I said that we don't allow them. It's great that you like to do 2 tank dives, my customers like 17-22 in a week. Not to put too fine a line on it, but exactly how many 5 or more day liveaboards have you been on with a total of 50-99 dives? Space is at a premium on a liveaboard, and all divers expand to fit the available space, including setting up on top of my gear, on the camera table, and all kinds of other places that directly impact the available space of the other customers. Divers typically get a space the width of their ass or their shoulders to gear up in. Add the width of 2 more cylinders, the rest of the divers on the boat are complaining about what a space hog you are, and why do we allow those things when other liveaboards don't.

Bob's post is helpful in that he explained to me that the Peace allows divers to bring their doubles. Now I have a resource to go talk to about how they do it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Could you please explain how two banded and manifolded tanks are taking up more space than the same two tanks individually. If the spacing of your tank holders is the problem than fixing that may be a better use of your authority as a captain than telling divers what tools they should choose for THEIR job.

Based on his comment about filling tanks, my guess would be that recreational divers on singles don't bring two tanks ... they bring one and fill it between dives ... a lot of boats do that.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I never said one took up more space than the other, I said that we don't allow them. It's great that you like to do 2 tank dives, my customers like 17-22 in a week. Not to put too fine a line on it, but exactly how many 5 or more day liveaboards have you been on with a total of 50-99 dives? Space is at a premium on a liveaboard, and all divers expand to fit the available space, including setting up on top of my gear, on the camera table, and all kinds of other places that directly impact the available space of the other customers. Divers typically get a space the width of their ass or their shoulders to gear up in. Add the width of 2 more cylinders, the rest of the divers on the boat are complaining about what a space hog you are, and why do we allow those things when other liveaboards don't.

Bob's post is helpful in that he explained to me that the Peace allows divers to bring their doubles. Now I have a resource to go talk to about how they do it.

Like this ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

Thanks Bob.

Now I am wondering how much bench space will be saved by refilling (and mandating) singles since most people's rear ends are wider than my doubles or your SM tanks next to each other.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thanks Bob.

Now I am wondering how much bench space will be saved by refilling (and mandating) singles since most people's rear ends are wider than my doubles or your SM tanks next to each other.

You'd be surprised ... particularly when everyone's trying to gear up at the same time. Last Sunday we were asked ... due to the boat we were on and the number of people who were going ... to not bring doubles. I dived my back-mounted singles rig, as did several folks who typically dive banded doubles. It made life a bit more comfortable for all ... particularly while gearing up.

I don't mind doing it when asked in advance ... or if I know in advance that the boat has a certain policy. We're all there to have a good time, and if I can do something to make someone else's experience a bit easier, I'm willing. But I don't appreciate unsolicited comments from boat crew about the appropriateness of my equipment choices. Most folks can be cooperative or defensive ... depending on how the topic is brought up.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Wookie]

But I don't appreciate unsolicited comments from boat crew about the appropriateness of my equipment choices. Most folks can be cooperative or defensive ... depending on how the topic is brought up.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So... I don't understand. There seems to be plenty of room on Peace for whatever you want. Scooters, singles, doubles, I think I saw a rebreather with bailout there too. Why wouldn't they like your sidemount over doubles? They seem to have a system to place them in a rack, they must fill them in that fill pond they have, and the entire back deck is taken up with gear. Why would they care if you were diving sidemount. I don't when folks are allowed doubles, I don't care if they choose sidemount instead. We only carry half the folks on tech charters.