When is "the line" crossed?

[Firebrand]

I think with the limited visibility underwater, and the fact that sounds can be heard, but direction can't be established, we are lead to use touch as the next best means of gaining knowledge through our senses. We certainly can't taste everything underwater and our sense of smell is virtually non-existant. This leaves our sense of touch as the second most productive form of gaining knowleged. Sometimes in extremely low/no visibility, it is our primary sense of gaining knowledge. I understand the urge, but it may not always be the most beneficial to us, or the creatures we are touching. If the animal approaches you, it probably wants interaction. Poking something is not the right way to go about it.

On the topside, if a deer approached me, I probably would reach out to it, but if I saw a bear, I wouldn't touch it, or even consider poking it. Why do the same with creatures that can be aggessive (like a morray eel)? Maybe next time he should reach out and pet that baracuda on the dive site, especially with gloves off and some bright, shiny rings on his fingers!

 

[Markdone]

my two psi

While I am of the "vintage" diver population - and agree with the philosophy of interacting with the creatures you are familiar with, I think the best rule with unknown diver crowds is "don't touch" -

If you are familiar with the local environment, know all the divers, and are comfortable they understand - do your thing.

If not, then I'd brief the dive to not touch ANYTHING. (and adhere to that rule yourself)

Case in point recently, we were briefed by the boat-based DM 1) No Gloves, park rule 2) NO touching anything - protected area etc etc

My new buddy, despite the DM's brief on the boat, put her gloves on after descending, and proceeded trying to grab and poke everything she saw - coral, slugs, longusta. I motioned several times to stop, and not touch, but she continued. Finally I couldn't stand it, and started lifting her by the tank valve to keep her from destroying more coral. Needless to say, she was put off back on the boat, but at least got my underwater communication and kept her hands to herself.

Mark

 

[H2Andy]

the "touch nothing" makes sense to me in the aggregate

one diver may not harm a particular critter. 10,000 divers will probably cause
it some damage

so it's not just you; think of everybody else who's come along and who will
come along after you've gone, and the damage just magnifies

 

[discrepancy]

It seems some of us are in the "Don't touch - never ever" camp, while others believe it's OK sometimes, as long as you don't cause distress or disease and you know what you're doing.

I'm in the second camp. Where I live we have a common species called the Port Jackson Shark. They can grow to about 5-6 feet, but most are half that size. These creatures are so docile you can pick them up by the tail and they will sit there and pose for the camera. (see attached pic)

At first I wonderered about whether this very common practice was OK, but the PJ's have a shark's leathery skin rather than scales, and so there's no risk of knocking off scales and removing their natural barrier to infection.

Most people who see a PJ keep their distance and just look, but for better or worse, some experienced divers will pick them up. God forbid, I once saw two old timers pick up two PJ's and have a mock underwater sword fight with them.

Before anyone gets really upset, you really need to see the PJ's. They are very, very docile and they appear completely unperturbed by human contact. I will admit that when you put them down they tend to swim away slowly, suggesting they would rather not be used as playthings. But, they stop just a few feet away before going back to their prefered past-time of sitting at the bottom of the ocean watching the world go by.

My final assessment? Look, don't touch. But, if you must, then at least take the trouble to learn about what you're doing and don't endanger the fish life.

 

[Rookie_J]

My final assessment? Look, don't touch. But, if you must, then at least take the trouble to learn about what you're doing and don't endanger the fish life.

alot of today's divers aren't willing to learn how to dive properly., why would they want to learn about the thousands of creatures they might encounter during a dive?

easiest way to protect the underwater environment is to teach "Don't touch"..

you're not supposed to touch the coral, but we all have stories about divers bouncing off the corals...

i've read many times about someone reaching out and touching a manta, dolphin, eel, etc. because it 'swam close'. if it wanted to be touched, it would of touched you...

i'm sorry but i'm a firm believer in the "don't touch it" rule...

 

[Diver0001]

Where is the line that shouldn't be crossed?

Maybe I have a different perspective on this than a lot of people but I grew up in the woods and I've interacted with animals all my life. Some of my fondest memories are memories of interacting with animals. I managed to coax a hummingbird to sit on my finger once, for example, and I guarantee you it's a much richer experience than watching one fly by.....

I don't have any problems with people interacting with or touching marine life, although I would rather see them using their fingers/hands than see them poking at them with stuff. To me the boundary has been reached when an animal tries to retreat and your pursue, especially with the intent of cornering it. That's causing stress and I don't think that's necessary.

Harming the animal in any way is clearly over the boundary.

R..

 

[fishoutawater]

To me the boundary has been reached when an animal tries to retreat and your pursue, especially with the intent of cornering it. That's causing stress and I don't think that's necessary.

Harming the animal in any way is clearly over the boundary.

R..

That's where I draw the line too. I was also raised around the critters. Some animals like human interaction, most don't.
I used to go fishing near Charleston SC years ago. There was this dolphin that would go around pestering people for pieces of squid. When we refused, he would splash us and carry on. Of course we also knew that if we gave in and give him some bait, he'd just pester us more. We were trying to get him to leave so maybe some fish would show up. We'd try going somewhere else, but he'd just follow us. He even seemed to like having his head stroked.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

alot of today's divers aren't willing to learn how to dive properly., why would they want to learn about the thousands of creatures they might encounter during a dive?

easiest way to protect the underwater environment is to teach "Don't touch"..

you're not supposed to touch the coral, but we all have stories about divers bouncing off the corals...

i've read many times about someone reaching out and touching a manta, dolphin, eel, etc. because it 'swam close'. if it wanted to be touched, it would of touched you...

i'm sorry but i'm a firm believer in the "don't touch it" rule...

How would it affect your belief if the animal initiated the contact?

Out here we have cabezons ... picture a 2-3 foot long Jabba the Hutt with an attitude ... who get rather aggressive during nesting season. Now, before you suggest just staying away from the nests, that ain't always possible cuz they can sometimes not be visible till you're right on top of 'em. Suddenly ol' Jabba comes screaming toward you at mach speed and "WHAMO!" ... sometimes it'll even whap into your tank at full throttle. Now you'd think "that had to hurt" ... not so. He'll just back up 8 or 10 feet and come at you again ... and again ... until you get out of his yard.

And there's places where the wolf eels are so used to diver interaction that they'll come right up to you, begging like an ill-trained dog for table scraps. Had one wrap itself around my leg one time and gave me the saddest look outta that smurf-blue face ... reminded me of a hungry golden retriever.

I've been harrassed by harbor seals, groped by GPO's, and targeted by triggerfish ... and none of them were particularly concerned about being "touched" ... heck, sometimes I have to give them a bit of a stiff-arm just to get them to leave me alone.

So it really depends on the situation ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Murchison]

Eventually I cornered him, and I took the shot right in his face. To this day I will never forget how he shivvered and jumped when the flash discharged - like a scared rabbit.

A few years ago a friend of mine was trying to get a macro shot of an octopus with his new fancy expensive camera. The octopus decided he liked the camera, and grabbed the framer with four tentacles while bracing himself in his hole with the other four, yanking the camera out of my friend's hands. I almost spit my regulator out laughing at the tug-o-war that ensued between my friend and that octopus
The octo finally let my buddy have his camera back... there was no picture.
Rick

 

[pickens_46929]

Octopi can't stand to leave you alone (if you know how to make yourself attractive).
Rick

Ok, so just how do you do this?