why do people do this ???

[MXGratefulDiver]

Being an astronaut is the highest risk job known (other then being a large scale crack dealer in a bad city maybe) as far as mortality rate.

Hmmm ... it probably also requires the highest degree of training before you ever get to see the other side of the atmosphere.

Someone did the first backflip with no training at all. Someone did the first big air in a half pipe with no training.

Wrong ... before they did that first backflip, or that first big air in a half-pipe, they practiced, failed, practiced some more, failed again, practiced some more, failed again ... starting on fairly "safe" terrain and progressively working their way up to the stunt in question.

NOBODY just got on a motorcycle, with no training at all, and did a backflip ... not intentionally, anyway. Nobody just strapped on a snowboard and started doing aerials on a half-pipe ... they started out learning technique and balance, then progressed to small half-pipes, doing basic stunts ... then started doing small aerials ... then progressively worked their way up to big ones. The people who do the "firsts" in any competitive event like you're talking about have been doing that activity for years, and trained intensively before attempting the stunts you describe.

That is no different than the first big cave dive or the first deep wreck penetration ... people don't just strap on scuba gear and do those dives ... not and live to describe the experience.

No matter what they teach kids in driver's education, some will still put the pedal to the metal just to see what it's like.

Yep ... and that's why teenagers make up 7% of drivers nationwide, yet account for 14% of all driving fatalities, and 20% of all reported accidents. In other words, teens are twice as likely to die, and three times as likely to be involved in accidents than the rest of the population. And of those accidents and fatalities, more than one-third are speed-related.

And diving is no different.

You're right, diving is no different ... those who engage in reckless behavior are far more likely to end up dead ... I believe I said that already.

Training? Some will just dive to 200 feet and not fear it. If you watch your air, how hard is it, really?

Why not ask those two guys listed in the articles at the beginning of this thread? Oh ... you can't ... they're dead. Both of them ran out of air.

Is it any different than going 130 MPH in a car?

Nope ... in both cases those who do it without proper training and under improper circumstances are engaging in behavior that is irresponsible, reckless, and stupid.

Some people are just like that.

That doesn't make it any less irresponsible, reckless, or stupid.

But I guess me wondering how people can be upset about this is no different than you BEING upset about it. But you can be angry at the wind for making too much noise. It won't change for you.

Who said I'm upset? I'm just trying to understand why people feel the need to be reckless ... and why some folks want to glorify that sort of behavior. That just encourages other people to go out and do equally stupid things.

And your analogy doesn't make any sense. People have the capacity to choose their own behavior ... the wind doesn't choose to make noise.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

Being an astronaut is the highest risk job known (other then being a large scale crack dealer in a bad city maybe) as far as mortality rate. Someone did the first backflip with no training at all. Someone did the first big air in a half pipe with no training. No matter what they teach kids in driver's education, some will still put the pedal to the metal just to see what it's like. And diving is no different. Training? Some will just dive to 200 feet and not fear it. If you watch your air, how hard is it, really? Is it any different than going 130 MPH in a car? Some people are just like that. But I guess me wondering how people can be upset about this is no different than you BEING upset about it. But you can be angry at the wind for making too much noise. It won't change for you. Whatever. Later, Hank

I listen to the guys who did the first 18,000 ft cave dive at 300 fsw. They're actually exceedingly careful and don't just 'put the pedal to the medal' to see how far they can overextend themselves and wind up dead. The guys who plan bounce dives to 200 fsw on a single tank of air are idiots.

Plus, all astronauts are exceedingly well trained. All the engineers who build the ships they fly in are exceedingly well trained. None of them decided to slap some extra boosters on a rocket, stick a guy in a capsule and see if they could hit the moon with it one afternoon...

Bounce diving to 200 fsw on air is nothing to get romantic about, there's no 'explorer spirit' involved, its just dumb.

 

[JeffG]

Oh no - not actually. No one asked exactly what happened, nor commented before or after, just lots of accusations here & later with the audience. Ergo, I never did tell the whole story. Probably won't on this board.

Don, I don't mean to slam you, but you seem to try to come out to defend yourself (and your decisions) and yet you do the political two step when it comes to info.

Did you or did you not go below 175ft on 28% nitrox?
Was your tank configuration a single on your back and a pony?
Did you have a buddy for this dive or did you do it solo?

and Why did you do the dive?

If you wish to keep the answers to yourself, thats fine. I have had dives that I wouldn't have the internet divers pick apart, so I understand that part. But why keep defending yourself without providing details? Ego????

 

[Snowbear]

No one asked exactly what happened, nor commented before or after....

OK.... I'll ask..... What exactly happened? I'll reserve any comments until I read your account. Actually, I'll probably reserve any comments unless you actually ask for them

 

[JeffG]

Actually, I'll probably reserve any comments unless you actually ask for them

Is that DIR

 

[DandyDon]

If you wish to keep the answers to yourself, thats fine. I have had dives that I wouldn't have the internet divers pick apart, so I understand that part. But why keep defending yourself without providing details? Ego????

It was others who posted about the dive, T-shirts seen all over Florida and the Caribbean, etc - after having said or asked so very little then & there, choosing to go on with half truths and speculations with an audience here instead. And the audience has been responsive. I posted a partial explanation on the report thread - more than deserved. here There were other details I didn't post as I am just sick of the gossip, as well as the way people have taken it for fact.

For the poor diver who was the original subject of this thread, I guess we will never know exactly what caused his failures that lead to his demise. Sad that he died, and did so alone. I hope many of us learn from his loss, for our own good and in his memory.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I hope many of us learn from his loss, for our own good and in his memory.

Amen ... we may never know enough to learn from the accident itself. What we can do is contemplate the potential consequences of our dive planning decisions, before they lead us to a similarly-tragic conclusion.

There is nothing inherently bad about taking risks ... but there is a lot wrong with taking them too lightly. By all means, go for your "personal bests" if that's important to you ... but don't take short-cuts. Get the training, acquire the knowledge, practice the skills, and use the proper equipment ... then you won't just be betting your life on blissful ignorance, hoping that nothing will go wrong before you surface.

People always ask "why do you care if someone else wants to risk their life?" ... well, we should always care when someone dies, or puts others in danger for their own personal gratification. It's rarely the case that these deaths affect only the person who died ... put yourself in the place of the son on the boat, waiting for his dad to surface and knowing he didn't have enough air to still be down there.

None of you ever want to feel what he's got to be feeling today ... it'll affect you for the rest of your days on this earth.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[BigJetDriver]

Bounce diving to 200 fsw on air is nothing to get romantic about, there's no 'explorer spirit' involved, its just dumb.

Lamont,

I can't believe you are saying this! This is massive criticism of Brett Gilliam, who basically rolled off the boat one day with a single tank, and went to 399 fsw on a bounce dive....on air! (Reports of it have been well published.) Look at what you just said about an "icon" in the dive industry!! :11:

Rob

 

[Rick Inman]

It was others who posted about the dive...,

...I am just sick of the gossip, as well as the way people have taken it for fact.

Well, I wasn't there, so there is no way I can know what happened. But Don, if you dive with divers from a public forum, you can't blame them for publicly talking about the dives. Talking about dives - the good, bad and the ugly - is what we do on this board.

I've seen talks about the way other people dive on this board, people like NWGratefulDiver, Snowbear, Uncle Pug... and they don't seem to mind. Why? Because the reports are so positive that we all can agree that they represent positive roll models.

But if I came back from a group dive and people were suggesting that I was less than safe - whether the facts were 100% accurate or not - I would take a good hard look at myself and my overall diving attitude. I would go to divers who are better divers than me and whose opinions I respect, give them the facts, and accept their assessment.

As demonstrated in the links Bob posted in this thread, people do die scuba diving.

Nobody wants it to be one of us.

Of course, all the respected divers could be wrong, I guess.

It's really not about "gossip", or if the facts are being represented accurately or not. It's about safe diving.

And here's something to think about. New divers read what other divers on this board do and go out and duplicate it.

 

[mwrager]

Hello everyone you have Don’s account and then you have 3 other peoples account. The 3 other people seen what happened because all 4 Don, my buddy, the owner of the resort, and myself were on a wall dive. We (My dive buddy, the owner of the resort, and myself) looked down into abyss only to see Don going deeper and deeper. Don was not with a buddy and he was taking pictures of the wall as he went deeper and deeper. My dive buddy and myself we diving on 32% so we stopped at 120ft, the owner was on air, looked at my dive buddy and me and signaled for us to go no deeper. The owner started to tap on his tank and went after Don. When the owner got to 175 feet he finally got Dons attention. The own and Don then came up to a safe depth.

Like what JeffG said in post #43 Don, I don't mean to slam you, but you seem to try to come out to defend yourself (and your decisions) and yet you do the political two step when it comes to info.

Did you or did you not go below 175ft on 28% nitrox?
Was your tank configuration a single on your back and a pony?
Did you have a buddy for this dive or did you do it solo?

and Why did you do the dive?

If you wish to keep the answers to yourself, that’s fine. I have had dives that I wouldn't have the internet divers pick apart, so I understand that part. But why keep defending yourself without providing details? Ego????


And Don everyone was talking about it and you were confronted about the dive and what you said is You had permission from the dive resort owner. Well if that’s the case why did he have to save you? Why was he not your buddy if he knew about the dive? And when I ask him he did not know any thing about it?

Don I don’t want to attack you on this but you are an unsafe diver when you dive like this. And it’s not Gossip, I was one of the people that witnessed it.