Why do the LDS's take it????

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Divesherpa:
I purchased a lot of stuff off the internet. I saved $50, $20, $150, whatever... Nobody ever shook my hand and said, "Let's go diving so you can try it out. There is a nice Loggerhead out at Black Condos that would enjoy seeing us today:wink:."

Some people would rather have $50 and get typing practive than a friendly, knowledgeable dive buddy (who knows the area and the gear) to dive with.


My advice is simple: Enjoy your dive with Ben Franklin! I'd rather be diving with friends at (***insert local dive site here***).

Cheers,
Jamie

Except you're missing an important point, just like the folks jumping all over the topic starter of the "sour lds experience" thread:

What if the dive shop you're supposed to be paying 200% mark-up too doesn't provide any of those services? They treat like you crap, never dive with you, and don't offer any advice? Would you still pay 300.00 for something there vs. 150.00 for something online?

Just because a shop sells dive equipment does NOT mean they get immediate respect, gratitude and very hard earned dollars. They have to do what every other business does for my money: They earn it.
 
Kriterian:
Except you're missing an important point, just like the folks jumping all over the topic starter of the "sour lds experience" thread:

What if the dive shop you're supposed to be paying 200% mark-up too doesn't provide any of those services? They treat like you crap, never dive with you, and don't offer any advice? Would you still pay 300.00 for something there vs. 150.00 for something online?

Just because a shop sells dive equipment does NOT mean they get immediate respect, gratitude and very hard earned dollars. They have to do what every other business does for my money: They earn it.
damn right

well said :thumb:
 
Kriterian:
Except you're missing an important point, just like the folks jumping all over the topic starter of the "sour lds experience" thread:

What if the dive shop you're supposed to be paying 200% mark-up too doesn't provide any of those services? They treat like you crap, never dive with you, and don't offer any advice? Would you still pay 300.00 for something there vs. 150.00 for something online?

Just because a shop sells dive equipment does NOT mean they get immediate respect, gratitude and very hard earned dollars. They have to do what every other business does for my money: They earn it.
Very well said.
 
jonnythan:
Scubaboard, TheDecoStop, etc.
What kind of idiot takes the advice of someone trying to sell them something??

Maybe the same kind of idiot that takes advice from other anonymous idiots on the internet?
 
H2Andy:
... as for advice and local dive knowledge, NOTHING matches ScubaBoard in my experience, which is why i loved this site from the moment i discovered it.
I'll say you do! I just noticed the raw number of posts and the short time you have been a member. You are truely prodigious. That's like 19 posts per day everyday for a year and a half. Must be a record.
 
FWIW, here are some of my observations that have been made into broad industry generalizations.....obviously there are exceptions to these....

1) Why do LDS 'accept' MFGrs 'abuse'? They have little to no choice. In the industry, most of the power resides with the MFGrs...The scuba market is small and there is little buying power a typical shop (with annual rev of $500k-$1M) can exert. Typically equipment sales generate 75% of their sales and 90% of their profits (if they have any). To tell a mfgr to take a hike is a VERY risky activiity (loss of future sales, access to parts for repairs [thereby driving existing customers to other LDS that have parts likely to never be seen again], and ill-will in a very 'small' population of shop owners, mfgrs, and distributors).

2) Why do LDS react the way they do to 'online customers' or otherwise provide poor service? Most shop owners are divers first, businesspersons (in the most liberal sense of the word) second. Many are frustrated with #1 and simply don't know what to do about the move to online retailing. Most don't have the time, energy, nor ability to plan beyond making next month's rent.

Its true that most Manufacturers have a contractually obligated Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). However, as I understand it, it is against anti-turst law for them the dictate the actual selling price. Many online non-dive related retailers have found away around the MAP by simply posting "too low to advertise, put in in your checkout basket to see the price". While the MFGrs wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on, they can still decide to not supply you with gear. Who wants to take the first arrow in trying to change the base of power?

3) If I were an LDS owner AND I had decided to stay in the business, what would I do? After having my head examined, I would

(1) re-price my equipment to be close, but slightly higher than online prices -- and make sure that every other LDS in the area knew it [signalling]. Most customers will pay a slight premium to be able to buy it and dive it today;

(2) I would only deal with mfgrs where I didn't have minimum purchase amounts or even MAPS. No more BCDs...al BP/W which (a) are better, and (b) generally size indifferent. I wouldn't need to stock 6 different sizes in 4 different configurations. Neopreme -- not a problem, there are enough suppliers out there that I could work with where I wouldn't be hamstrung. Dive computers/bottom timers? I'd sell one mfgr wrist model -- non-AI and non-wireless. Fins/masks/snorkels....a non-issue, they are so dang cheap from Asia that I can get a reaonable price through a number of channels.

(3) raise my air fill prices to $35 a fill -- and make sure that every dive shop in the area was aware of the price [signalling]. Can't buy air online and even the most avid 'average' recreational diver wouldn't be able to cost justify buying their own compressor even at that rate...much less know how to maintain it and service it. Other area LDSs might be giving more airfills, but theoretically, I'd be moving more equipment. If they lower their equipment w/o raising air fill prices, then they have NO margins.

(3) I would offer the best customer service I could muster. I'd be honest with divers and treat them the way I want to be treated. I'd train new divers using equipment that would last them a loong time....not until they figure out they were screwed a year or two later..


Would I succeed? MAYBE. But I would need a lot of capital in reserve to let evolution take its toll of the LDSs that would not follow suit on certain things and cause me some lost sales to start with. Would the return be worth the risk....I haven't worked the numbers, but I doubt it.

So......in the future, we will have

Dive Instructors who are independent that rent pool/classroom time and guide students on equipment purchases online -- at certification rates that are above the current rates.

Equipment Sales -- online, direct from manufacturers for the most part. The local sporting goods will carry more mass-market equipment like masks, snorkels, and fins.

Travel -- online again

Air Fills -- bought the only thing that can't be disintermediated.....could be a combination of the sporting goods, co-ops, instructors, or maybe newer technology will render them less important (read: recreational rebreathers or the supposed new 'gills')

As I said, FWIW.....
 
Like many divers, I am a bad combination of two buying patterns: Very Picky when it comes to my gear, and instant needs gratifications. However, price is also a very big concern. Let's face it, we are divers because we want to go diving, not because we want to put equipment on layaway for two years! So when it comes time to buy , I want the right gear at the right price and god willing, I want it TODAY!!! If I had a local dive shop that could give me that, I would live there. But none of them do.

The local dive shop I use sells a lot of stuff, not just for diving. As a perfect example, I went in there the other day and saw an approx. 32 oz bottle of salt away for almost $40! I bought a gallon of it for $20 at overtons. I understand more than anyone that these guys need to make a buck...but frankly diving gear is expensive enough already! Unfortunately for these guys, the wal-marts of the diving industry are coming to a computer near you and stealing their customers...but that is there problem, not ours.

I've been given a lot of attitude by my LDS as well for buying gear from other stores or from online companies. My attitude is ******* 'em! If they wanted MY business, they have to work for it. Of course, this defiance makes for some pretty awkward moments when it comes time to have gear inspected! My LSD wouldn't even give me a free fill after I helped prep his boat for the spring one season!
 
Hey Otter,
I'd be surprised if your pockets were deep will be deep enough to survive:) You're going to have to have quite a few "educated" customers who don't go for the spin, abuse, and other tactics that have worked so long for the LDS's.
 
All I can say is when I can walk into my LDS and have the owner say so how was your daughters party before I can even get out what I need from them they have my loyalty (for lack of a better word). Do I know I pay more then what I can get online yes I do, but the service and relationship I have with them is more important to me. I know I can call or send an email asking silly questions and still get a response and not feel I have wasted their time. Plus the added advantages of classes for my family, dive ops, equip, air, etc.. Each person has their reasons why they will only shop online versus only LDS people and each person will defend their choice til they are blue in the face.
 
neil:
Maybe the same kind of idiot that takes advice from other anonymous idiots on the internet?



Where's the idiot sport in this kind of advice?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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