Why no Con Ed?

[3D diver]

Well...

I've been diving a long time, dive regularly & dive within my experience/comfort zone. Over the years when I've done something new---resort/vacation dive, moved to new location, wreck diving, drysuit diving, etc.---there's always been someone on hand to tell me what I needed to know & take me under wing for a few dives.

That, plus I've always been a bit leery of the "specialty class for everything" approach to training.

My 2cents...

 

[NAM001]

I also am not the prime group that you are addressing. I have however like you asked the same questions of many and here is what i am hearing.

Does it get me better air?
Does (nothing more than)an OW stop me from going on boats?
Why should I spend XXX$ for no new training? Its a money grab.
I dont need further training. If it were needed everyone else would have more than a OW.
If they want my money they will take my OW and shut up.
I only dive a couple of times a year. Its the tour guides problem not mine.
If you wont dive with me i know plenty of OW's like me that will.
Its no biggy, they have a guy the will put my gear together for me.

The comments go on and on. This all has ties to other threads like, knowing your limits, refresher classes, diveing certification limits, solo diving, youe dont know what you dont know. We have generations that believe the world is a CONN and its them against the world. No one is going to tell them what they can and can not do. Yet, not only do we ask ourselves what went wrong to cause a divers demise but contribute to the situation ourselves.

 

[boulderjohn]

That, and many (most?) newly-minted divers don't follow up with the sport aside from an occasional vacation dive. For reasons that have been discussed on this board.

This history of NAUI written in part by AL Tillman, NAUI instructor #1, contains information to the topic of this thread and this post in particular. It contradicts some common notions regarding both diver retention and continuing education.

The first real scuba instruction agency was a government entity, Los Angeles County, and Tillman was in charge of it. Wanting to expand but unable to do so with tax dollars, he eventually helped lead the development of NAUI and became one of its first directors. A few years later, Los Angeles County was concerned about the fact that so many newly certified divers stopped diving shortly after certification. They wanted to try to think of some way to get them to continue diving. They came up with the idea of a new certification level--the Advanced Diver. This program would include some greater skills, but it would mostly be an introduction to different aspects of diving in the hopes that something would pique the interest of students and keep them diving. Students would do a variety of different kinds of dives in the program.

Tillman thought that was a good idea, and soon NAUI came up with their own version of the course for the same reason--new divers were stopping diving shortly after certification, and they were trying to find a way to keep them interested. Before long, other agencies followed suit.

Contrary to what many people believe, diver dropout was not caused by the decision to make different levels of certification; the decision to make different levels of certification was made in the hope of solving the existing diver dropout problem.

 

[dmoore19]

Speaking for myself as I don't know about the masses but, living in CO means there is not a lot of choices for diving. As was pointed out you can't take a AOW course because there is nothing deep enough that is close. The shallower dives that are close are cold with limited visibility, not a lot of fun IMO. The closest for me is the blue hole in NM. 7-8 hour drive each way, not exactly a weekend excursion.

I know a lot of those warm water divers who only go once or twice a year and understand why it is that way.

I was OW certified and spent the next 50 dives spread over 2 years getting comfortable with what I had learned. I took the AOW course on vacation in Mexico for the reasons mentioned above, lack of a place and the distance and costs just to get there. At 100 dives I considered rescue and another course. The course I wanted to do locally did not work out timing wise and the number of people wanted to be able do the course. I did not have the first aid and CPR certs for the rescue class and it got put on the back burner for a bit. I took the nitrox course. I am glad that I took AOW after 50 dives, I am glad I took the Nitrox course, I am inclined to believe that it was a wise decision for live aboard diving. Another year passed and I am again considering the rescue class with around 140 dives to my name. I am interested in it and will eventually go that way and get it done.

I dive 2 or possibly 3 trips per year. At my age I have no desire to wrestle 30 or more # of lead and a fight getting in and out of 7 Mil of neoprene to dive in 30' of water with 5' or 10' of vis. I don't find the thought of it enjoyable. It isn't what I want to do. I will however seek out the prerequisites to obtain Rescue training if time and money allows. I can also say that I have no desire to seek Divemaster training. I am not interested in Tech or decompression or the tons of other classes often mentioned here. I also think that those who consider all vacation divers some sort of sub species who isn't serious about wanting to dive are wrong.

Con Ed? Sure but how much does the average person really want? It depends on the person and what they want, not wht somebody else seems to think they should want to be considered a serious or real diver.

 

[They call me Tater]

No doubt location is a factor but I've not seen anyone mention a major factor. Cost.
For those who don't get bit hard but do want to dive, money is a major factor. I am always trying to sell diving to co-workers but I know at least a half dozen who have told me they have done DD and want to get certified and another few already certified but they won't dive. They have houses and young kids and wives and just can't bring themselves to pay for scuba. They all have good jobs but are in the 20-35 age group and have other priorities.

 

[MaxE]

I'm an OW diver who has not taken any Con Ed. I can only speak as to why I have not taken Con Ed and can't give any insight beyond myself.

I was certified at the end of june this year. the course was a gift from my wife. I spent a few weeks in S. FL for work late last year and spent my weekends snorkeling, I had mentioned that I wanted to dive and well she is just a great gal. Anyway we had a family renuion in Mexico for July so I got certified beforehand to get a few dives in. I really wanted to get some diving in before I took more classes. I feel for me that I will get more out of any classes I take with more experience. I like the LDS where I did my OW, but in my area classes are not as cheap as say parts of FL. Right now I have decided to spend the limmited funds on weekend trips away from the big muddy river that prevents local diving, and on gear. I hope to get a dive day in each moonth and hopefully a bigger trip once a year. I plan to take Con Ed but just not right now

 

[Dr. Lecter]

In a word? Cynicism. In three words? Perfectly reasonable cynicism.

I won't get into exactly what pieces of plastic I hold, but I'm much closer to the OP's statement than one would generally find for someone routinely diving deep on a CCR. But I think my case is only a difference in degree rather than kind from those I see quite frequently around me.

Simply put, a significant amount of what passes for con ed in diving has not been structured with the diver's best interests in mind. Instead, one all too often sees the level of training and the accompanying limits placed on the cert obtained sliced and diced into tiny pieces--not for the diver's safety as is generally promoted, but because it means the student will be back for more training that much sooner just so they will be "allowed" to do dives that are a short reach away (or that they're already doing regularly in some cases). This is one of the areas where I have to hand it to GUE: their classes are expensive, but give a significant amount of training and wide limits on the type of diving "allowed" by the plastic card, within which the diver can then grow through experience rather than coming back a few months later.

PADI's recreational offerings have plenty of examples of this, but it's really been on display in some agencies CCR offerings lately. For example, TDI's mod 1 (mod 0?) will no longer involve deco certification, regardless of prior deco experience or training (and apparently regardless of whether the mod 1 class involved planned and executed actual deco dives). That's now a separate card before mod 2. Because I'm not aware of anything actually coming out of it, I'll refrain from getting into how manufacturers and agencies were working to require a full re-do of all prior levels of training rather than a simple crossover at the mod 3 level if a diver wished to change units.

But people see this and justifiably think that all these "con ed" offerings are equally worthless - because they're largely being peddled by people who have a bottom line to think about and their course offerings show it. That's bad for instructors and agencies because without credibility they aren't going to get as many repeat students; it's bad for divers because somewhere along the line you're going to get people like the Spiveys, who aren't going to do such a hot job for parsing between training they are being offered to pad someone's pocket versus training they need to not die on their next dive.

 

[radtype]

Why would someone spend hard earned $$ without a good reason. You can dive deep, dive at night, almost anything without the advanced certification. If I were a new diver I would buy gear and dive instead of paying for classes.

Find a way to drop costs and make the AOW fun and you will appeal to others. Right now it is too serious. Watch how people talk to others when trying to sell the class.

i've offered to pay for daughter's AOW class but it doesn't interest her.

 

[Akimbo]

This history of NAUI written in part by AL Tillman, NAUI instructor #1, contains information to the topic of this thread and this post in particular. It contradicts some common notions regarding both diver retention and continuing education.

<snip>

Contrary to what many people believe, diver dropout was not caused by the decision to make different levels of certification; the decision to make different levels of certification was made in the hope of solving the existing diver dropout problem.

I am not ready to say it is a failed concept, just horribly implemented. The principal of “value added” seems to elude the great majority of people in the training industry.

Dive Training Today, A Perspective by Bret Gilliam, Diver Magazine

Although difficult to measure, I believe that the dropout rate is higher than ever. In the beginning of the industry you had what might be considered a basic dropout rate — people that don’t enjoy other activities more, don’t have the time, or can’t afford expensive vacations because local diving is the pits.

Unfortunately, the concept of eliminating essential basics in Scuba 101 has failed to make divers feel safe and has piled on a new layer of dropouts.

 

[drrich2]

TS&M:

I did get cont.ing ed., & I'm not in your area (I'm in SW Kentucky). I'll pitch some ideas anyway.

1.) If Peter teaches as well as I suspect he does, his students aren't insecure enough to 'need' AOW to achieve marginal competency.

2.) You talk about Puget Sound a lot as your local diving, and if I recall correctly, it's cold and there are tides and currents to think about with some shore diving there? Now, since a lot of people certify with tropical vacations in mind, I gotta ask...how many of Peter's former students are picking up AOW in Cozumel, etc..., because it's easier and a nicer environment without as much exposure protection needed?

3.) Some people want AOW because they are insecure from OW, from what I read on ScubaBoard. I was a bit insecure myself. These people may want to get better, but not be threatened with a course that's too hard, or they're apt to fail. Hellooooooo, tropical vacation resort course in the Caribbean...

4.) Some want AOW to significantly advance their skills. I'd expect these people to come back to Peter.

5.) Some may want an experienced pro. on hand as they explore different kinds of diving (as I did, taking the PADI Deep specialty, heading down to 130 feet in Bonaire not knowing how susceptible to narcosis I would prove to be. IIRC you are susceptible shallower than many, or used to be, so you can see my point).

6.) Some want an AOW 'license' to dive deep on charter boats. I saw 2 guys turned down for a deep wreck out of Key Largo because they only had AOW, and weren't packing logbooks to support experience (Captain did offer to look if they had them). But do people often need an AOW cert. to dive Puget Sound? What about coastal California?

7.) Nitrox is the 'license to get nitrox fills.' Often recommended.

8.) The Rescue course may be off-putting as the name suggests you might be expected to function as a life-guard, and a lot of people do not like to intercede in emergency situations. This is not a complimentary observation on human nature, but a lot of people don't want to assess traumatic injuries, clamp off bleeders, do CPR, take high level responsibility, etc...

9.) Most rec. divers don't go into technical diving from what I understand.

10.) I would expect Peter would be teaching some dry suit courses. Does he teach dry suit in the OW course? I was thinking that can be done...

So, considering your students' competency at the end of OW training, your local diving community, how commonly people need nitrox, how often AOW is required to dive a boat or site, how cold & off-putting the conditions are compared to Cozumel or Bonaire (cold water divers can argue all the day long how they wouldn't trade their local ice holes for the tropics; the rest of us buy plane tickets...), and whether they actually need the training in a given cert. (Dry Suit Diver) to meet a diving need...what do you figure the reasons are?

Richard.

P.S.: One more question; I take it you think many of them should be pursing continuing ed., here's the flip question - why do you think they should?