Would you let a near death experience stop you? My encounter

[scratchmyback]

PM-P I read the other thread first and then got directed to this one. I am really glad you're OK after this incident.

My AOW deep dive did not include a pony, for what it's worth. Some of the previous posters have already mentioned having a competent buddy - I assume he was the one who posted the story on the other thread. You mentioned you went to your instructor first to show him your free flowing reg - why did you not go to your buddy? I'm just wondering if there was a reason - was the instructor closer to you at that time? I think some speculations are being made about your buddy that might not be accurate.

Anyway, thank you for posting this. Hope you are able to jump back in the water soon.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well I was finishing up my AOW dives on Sunday. Nothing really crazy, I think we planned on like a 90ft dive in this quarry. The water was colder then the previous days it felt, but nothing unexpected.
We did our decent close to a pier and just kept close to that on the decent.
We were going down and the instructor was helping this train wreck of a lady in our class. I got away from here so I didnt get tangled up.
So I noticed my primary reg started to free flow at about 70ft. Likely due to the water temps. So I messed with it and showed my instructor. I got the craps of it and dropped it and grabbed my back up. . .. rather then my Pony.. . This is where the problem started.
I showed my instructor the problem and grabbed for my back up off my 1st stage since it was breathing correctly for the time being.
He went behind me I was assuming to shut my tank off for a sec and to put it back on to see if that helped the free flow. He apparently thought I had my pony in my mouth.
I didnt feel the air go off, so I figured he was looking for something else.
All the sudden on my next inhale I felt no air. To say the least I freaked out cuz I was at full exhale.
I went to find my pony reg, but with all the new gear on and panicking it made it harder to get.
I then grabbed onto the instructor for dear life trying to find his pony reg. He said I had it in my hand and he was trying to get it in my mouth, but I was already well beyond panic mode and swallowed a bunch of mid 40 degree water.
Instead of wrapping him up more, my last ditch effort was to get to the surface and deal with the consequences if I made it.
So I did all I could to see light. I shot up swallowing air and gasping the whole way. i didnt see we were actually under the pier at that point and I bounced my head off one of the beams on the way up. As I hit it I thought I was gone for sure. Figured all my stuff would get tangled and that was it.
Somehow I bounced off it and managed to just barely hit the surface before I passed out.
I popped out under the pier and was hyper ventilating gasping for air. My instructor was holding onto me the whole time trying to get me to hold onto the pier and get me to calm down.
I apparently broke my inflator hose on the way up too. so my BC wasnt holding air. Thank got for those beams on hold onto even though my head hurts.

We ended the dive day for obvious reasons. My instructor checked me out and comforted me. He said not to let it get to me, it happens and will help me realize what not to do for next time.

I am fine, but still freaked out thinking about getting back in the water. I dunno if my life is worth it. I think that if I wouldnt have been near the pier to grab onto and hyper ventilating with the hole in my BC now too, I would have sunk back down and drown before catching my breath if open water.
Just plain scary.

For next time I deff know to make my Pony reg closer to me then my backup reg. That is the main lesson.

Anyone here come to a close call like this and feel Ok about getting back into the water? I love diving and all, but my brother in law drowned like 2 weeks ago and I saw his face the whole way up thinking this was it. its all over. Im still somewhat yooung and I know my wife doesnt like me diving at all let alone after I told her this.
How would you all handle this?

Yes, I would dive again.

I'm not sure I'd dive with that instructor again. He did several things wrong, which led to your problem.

First and foremost, he took some people deep who were clearly not yet ready to go deep. Stick to the shallows for a while, get comfortable with your gear ... deep dives are not the place to start learning how to configure and use new gear, and your instructor should know that. From the info you provided, I don't think it was prudent for you to be doing a deep dive until you were more comfortable with your gear.

Second, he shut off your air supply without first checking that you had an alternate source ... and if I'm reading this correctly, without telling you what he was doing. That's two HUGE no-no's. He should have either made sure you were breathing off the pony or handed you his backup regulator before touching your valve. He should have been in front of you, where he could control any issues, and clearly making sure you understood what he was doing before he touched your valve. Your instructor is trained (supposedly) to know how to be in control of his students, and to anticipate problems ... not contribute to them.

Apparently the instructor went to the surface (rather quickly, it seems) with you ... what happened to the "train wreck lady" you mentioned in the first paragraph? Did he just leave her down there?

This instructor doesn't seem to have been in control of the situation very well ... my advice to you is to stay shallow for a while and get some comfort level with your present skills and gear and find a different instructor. This one didn't make good decisions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mark G]

so whats causing these free flow regs? cold water, poor maint. inferior product?

 

[TSandM]

I don't know, but cold water was probably at the root of mine.

 

[ianr33]

Trying to figure out how the long hose would have made a difference here. I never got the impression that PM-Performance was ever breathing off someone else's gas.

I think you are correct,he never was breathing of someone elses gas.Which as I see it was a lot of the problem.

from his post: "All the sudden on my next inhale I felt no air. To say the least I freaked out cuz I was at full exhale.
I went to find my pony reg, but with all the new gear on and panicking it made it harder to get.
I then grabbed onto the instructor for dear life trying to find his pony reg "

So,problem with primary reg.Goes for pony reg.Can not find it.Goes for instructors pony reg.Can not find it. Panicks (I would probably do the same by that point!)

Compare that to: Buddy sees he is having a problem so offers him his own reg. OP grabs reg and about 1/2 second later has an air supply. Thumb the dive and ascend to the surface.

A long hose (either 5 or 7') is not essential but it makes things easier. One of the advantages of donating the reg you are breathing from is that it is very easy and quick. Any time your buddy has a problem,or the suspicion of a problem ,it takes very little time to offer the reg. Most of the time he probably does not need it,but he will thank you on that one time in a hundred where he is close to losing it.

As the saying goes "having no gas to breathe is an emergency,anything else is an inconvenience"

 

[Walter]

Not your fault, but not only are you not ready to be diving deep, you aren't ready to be in open water at all. You are in serious need of basic entry level skills. If you can't find all your second stages by feel, you're not ready to be out of the pool. If you can't put a regulator in your mouth that is in your hand, you aren't ready to be out of the pool. I'm not too sure your instructor is ready to be out of the pool either.

Dont mean to put you down or anything ,but diving with a competant buddy,preferably one with a long hose,would have made this a non event rather than a life threatening situation.

A long hose made absolutely no difference in this instance. If both divers were ready for an emergency (or if the instructor wasn't incompetent), it would have been a non-issue with any length hose.

 

[PM-Performance]

We did dive with this equip all weekend, but even a weekend with it, I still wasnt used to having all on. We were getting used to having reels, lift bags, lights, knives, pony's ect.
I should have had the pony more accessible.
My partner was right next to me when this happened. I just happened to show the instructor because he was going down the line checking on us before we went deeper.

He did come right up with me. The others stayed right there. He got me to breathe ok first and said stay right here, let me go down and get the others. I dont blame him for not letting me die and letting the others that were calm stay there for a minute or two. But I am biased as I am the one who would have died.


Ill respond with more later. I deff think the dive instructor was a great teacher, but I will also agree if I was more aware he was shutting my air off, this would have ended up different. but again I didnt show him I was on my safe second and not the pony. Mistake by both of us I guess.
I would deff trust diving with him again. It was just a messed up situation and I made it worse by freaking out

 

[Tigerman]

First off, im glad youre ok.
Personally, yes I would dive again.

As far as the specific incident goes, Id say it should give you a pointer about your own preparedness for more advanced diving than whats done in the open water class and what you should focus on improving.
The problem, as far as I can see, could have been corrected right up untill the point where you rushed upwards and out of range of the instructor if it hadent been for the fact that you paniced and where unable to stay focused.

The question I would ask myself wouldnt be "What did I do wrong?", it would be "Why did I panic?" and I would not settle with the anser "Because I did something wrong". Lets face it, were probably all going to do something wrong sooner or later and whats going to decide if we have an incident or just a inconvenience is wether or not we panic.

I also have to say I struggle with the "all this new gear" part..
I think its generally a very bad idea combining new types of dive with new equipment if it can be avoided. Sure, its a good thing bringing a pony, but as you just proved, what good is it gonna do other than being a distraction if you have no experience using it? When I start using new gear, Ill be doing shallow dives in known locations and practicing with it. Nothing worse than false security..

 

[TSandM]

Boy, I think you are cutting this instructor way too much slack.

It wasn't your responsibility to "show him" which regulator you were breathing. You were the diver with the problem! It's the responsibility of the unstressed, supposedly calm and in this case supposedly very trained support person to VERIFY what regulator you are breathing before they turn off the gas!

And reading that you guys were down there with reels, lift bags and ponies you weren't used to gives me the willies. At 25 dives, if you'd hung a pony, a lift bag and a reel off me, I'm not sure I could have dived at all. That's a TON of task-loading equipment to manage and keep track of and deploy and use and stow, for somebody with that little experience underwater.

The more you tell us, the less I like the way this class was run.

 

[sunnyboy]

This was an AOW course. No agency mentioned. However, I would recommend this instructor be reported to the agency as it is a VERY serious thing to be shutting down a student's air underwater.

I'm not saying the instructor needs to be banned or anything, but the incident needs to be reviewed by the agency.

-S