To pony or not to pony

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

A pony is merely one means of several alternatives to manage risk. Specifically, its to provide air supply redundency.

Another way to have air supply redundency is to have a good buddy. But this doesn't apply if you're going to go dive solo, or if you're serious about UW photography.

Some people will argue that if you think you need a pony, that you really need doubles. There's some merit to this line of thought, but it generally assumes that the dive plan needs a significant air supply, and that the pony will be included as part of it.

Recommendations for doubles also assumes that you're strong enough to carry doubles without injury. Unfortunately, most "former serious divers" I personally know had to give up the sport due to back injuries from the weight of doubles. Similarly, the Military Specification (MILSPEC) for Human Engineering product design places the upper safe limit for repetitive lifting of heavy objects as significantly less than the weight of most doubles systems...in fact, its right around the weight of a single tank system. If you want to be able to enjoy diving for decades, the health implications are IMO clear: avoid doubles.


In some areas, local custom and/or policy is to require some form of redundency. NJ diveboats are one example. Sure, a "Spare Air" technically qualifies, but from a capability standpoint, that's a very poor value...the only realistic choices are a pony or doubles.

If and when you decide to go with a pony, there's another philisophical debate on how best to mount it. In short, the choices are between a slug tank (like a stage) or attaching it somehow to your primary tank. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, and both draw some criticism that is incorrect. Some examples of bad advice are:
a) that a bottle behind your shoulder will throw you further "off balance" more than the same bottle off your hip (they're both the same distance off of your center of mass)
b) that 2-3 of pounds of mass that's offset by adjusting your weightbelt's lead in the opposite direction causes a tortuous torque on your body (better watch out for that console!)
c) that one location "Never" gets in your way no matter what you're doing and the other location "Always" does.
d) how cheap a stage rig can be put together for overrides all other performance considerations.

FWIW, if its not obvious, I'm slightly biased against stage rigging - - I tried it a decade ago because they're cheap, but I found that its location/configuration interfered with my UW camera.

FYI, a nice non-stage-mount pony rig that's very compatible with rental equipment and/or rental tanks is a "PonEase" by SeaLutions.

In closing, if you have a good buddy, good equipment and you're doing rec profiles, you probably don't have a pressing need for a pony or doubles.


-hh
 
Well, I'll jump in on this one....

When I am diving with my regular buddies (in whom I am glad to say I completely trust with my life) and no photography, I do not use mine.

When diving solo or with other UW photogs, I take it.

I have very good gas management and buddy skills (which requires a buddy), so I don't buy into that objection.

Mine is used for catastrophic emergencies only, not extra air. I simply refuse to buy into the "it could never happen to me" argument. That's a recipe for disaster. Did a poll on RSD once, ever have a catastrophic failure? Most said no. A few said yea, even ones that resulted in no air.

You also need to determine how to attach it. I have done both back mount and slung with my 13 cuft, prefer slung, easier to maintain proper trim, and I can hand it off or ditch it (ditchable weight) if need be.

Hopefully, it's the worst couple hundred bucks I ever spend. But if I need it, I'll be glad I spent it.

Chris
 
I have a 13 and a 30. I tend to use the 13 only when I dive master as it is the perfect alternate air source if somone needs it. I attach is like a sling tank with a single second stage on it and a button pressure guage.

I have been in an underwater emergency before (without the pony) and I found the most dangerous part was having to maintain contact with a person that was stressed while they were on my octo. I then bought and use a pony for just that situation. Now I would give them the reg off the pony then just clip the pony on their BC. This takes all of 30 seconds to do and it makes me much more safe. I then can back away to a "safe" distance and make an ascent. But in the 1 to many role of a DM this makes sense and I tend NOT to use it when I am just diving for fun. With a single buddy as I am a total minimalist and the more I cary the more I have to think about which is not the point of fun dives. I know that sounds harsh BUT there is plenty of safty margin built into the standard buddy relationship.

As for the 30.... total waste of money! There is not practical application in recreational diving. I find too many people like to look the part of a tech diver with little or no formal training and worse yet with NO real reason. This only increases the task management one must deal with and in a stressful situation it could tend to be dangerous.

my $0.02
Pete
 
perpet1 once bubbled...


As for the 30.... total waste of money! There is not practical application in recreational diving. I find too many people like to look the part of a tech diver with little or no formal training and worse yet with NO real reason. This only increases the task management one must deal with and in a stressful situation it could tend to be dangerous.
So...I'm confused...should I go buy the 13 or the 30...I want to look like a tech diver
 
I use a 19cf pony mounted with a bracket. Put my old Titan on it and I'm looking for a gas switch to pull it into my FFM. I offset the imbalance with extra weight in the opposite back pouch of my BC.
I dont have permanent buddies...sometimes I solo to 15 feet at my local lake...safety #1.
 
Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Watchu really want is the S.A.B. (Spare Air Bandolier)
Get two and criss cross 'em for extra redumbancy.
That is quite possibly the funniset thing I've heard all night....that makes the 39-10 defeat less painful anyway....thanks Pug.
 
I am in agreement with Diver0001. I want to be able to use my air on easier, shallower dives with good buddies, and also have reserve when making deep dives with students or when going out solo to set up things. Therefore, I have opted for larger tanks (LP 112 Faber--which carries nearly 150 cf air with a good cave fill) set up with H-Valves so that I use 2 regulators which can be isolated.

perpet1, you seriously need to re-examine your idea of your role as a Divemaster! If someone runs low/out of air and needs your assistance--they NEED your assistance. You can't clip more air onto them and dispose of them!! This is someone a half-step away from panic and already overtasked by accepting a strange regulator. You NEED to hang onto them securely, take control, and manage the situation. A safe ascent at this point must be made at a "safe" distance of app. 8 inches from the OOA diver's face!

My viewpoint is that diving incidents are rare, and OOA is very rare. But if you plan to dive ALOT, then you will deal with these events some day, so it is best to be prepared both equipment-wise and mentally.

theskull
 
I would have to agree with perpit1 on this one. I utilize a 19 ft3 with only a second stage and a button pressure gauge. The pressure gauge is difficult to read underwater but if you need to use it the pony, the amount of pressure in the tank is almost always useless information at that point in your dive. I also perfer to sling it on the left side as you would a deco bottle. The reason for this is that it allows you the freedom of removing it should you have to as well as giving you access to the valve and octo. Keep in mind, IMHO, that you should charge the system, check for proper working procedures and turn the valve back off. I keep my pony filled with air vice NITROX as to not create any problems with oxgen toxicity during deep dives should the need to use it come up. One more for GP...the only problem that I have had while using a pony is my computer / compass was hard to get at when I needed to use them. Pratice on land ensuring that all the hoses are accessable. So far I have not have to rely on it but I have given it to two others underwater to use.
 
In the past I dove with the pony on all solo dives deeper than 60 feet... until the day I didn't and my primary air delivery system inexplicably failed. The controlled emergency ascent from 70 feet taught me the pony was a necessity FOR MY PARTICULAR DIVING PATTERN.

I dive mostly solo to gather underwater video and conduct research. Buddies too often interfere with these tasks, and occasionally cause problems that would not have existed had I been diving solo.

I have never used the pony to extend bottom time (especially since I mainly dive a HP120 or my backup HP100). It is strictly present in the event my primary equipment fails.

I usually keep the pony on for all dives now. That way I don't have to adjust trim if I don't. I even keep it on when diving with buddies unless they are well known to me and our dive plan is for shallow shooting.

Those who dive with buddies, or have other dive patterns, may not consider a pony necessary.

Dr. Bill
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom